Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process

Milton L Mueller <mueller@syr.edu> Tue, 20 January 2015 04:43 UTC

Return-Path: <mueller@syr.edu>
X-Original-To: ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634191ACEEF for <ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:43:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.21
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lAywtkibAm33 for <ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp1.syr.edu (smtp1.syr.edu [128.230.18.82]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E0E61ACE6D for <ianaplan@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EX13-MBX-15.ad.syr.edu (ex13-mbx-15.ad.syr.edu [128.230.108.155]) by smtp1.syr.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t0K4hfnB005000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:43:41 -0500
Received: from EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu (128.230.108.144) by EX13-MBX-15.ad.syr.edu (128.230.108.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.847.32; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:43:40 -0500
Received: from EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu ([128.230.108.144]) by EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu ([128.230.108.144]) with mapi id 15.00.0847.030; Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:43:34 -0500
From: Milton L Mueller <mueller@syr.edu>
To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
Thread-Topic: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
Thread-Index: AQHQNAFU9lfutPBCvkSKfkENTxTy25zIR5qAgAB2YoD//7Dc0A==
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 04:43:33 +0000
Message-ID: <ec2e330070e9406eb9679fad2825e640@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu>
References: <C172BBB7-9BA4-4BA7-848C-C7FE5B66CBF7@cooperw.in> <20150119160154.GA73402@mx1.yitter.info> <54BD755D.4050409@dcrocker.net> <4939D828-577E-440A-B852-48C581BCC9A3@anvilwalrusden.com>
In-Reply-To: <4939D828-577E-440A-B852-48C581BCC9A3@anvilwalrusden.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [108.26.56.166]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-01-20_01:2015-01-19,2015-01-20,1970-01-01 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1501200053
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ianaplan/OBORx4pRed0DoWScMToJ1YwBOYs>
Cc: "ianaplan@ietf.org" <ianaplan@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
X-BeenThere: ianaplan@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IANA Plan <ianaplan.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ianaplan>, <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ianaplan/>
List-Post: <mailto:ianaplan@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan>, <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 04:43:50 -0000

Andrew: 
You're confusing the ICG (IANA Stewardship Coordination Group) with the names CWG (Cross-community Working Group). Alissa is the chair of the ICG, not the CWG, and the message was sent to the ICG not to the CWG.  

--MM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ianaplan [mailto:ianaplan-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sullivan
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 11:25 PM
> To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
> Cc: ianaplan@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal
> development process
> 
> The note wasn't to ICANN. Alissa told us that the CWG received it.  I wasn't
> trying to respond to him here.  I was noting why the complaint he made to
> the CWG wasn't in my view a reasonable complaint.  Since the CWG is the
> recipient of our work product, it seemed to me that a response was in order.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> A
> 
> --
> Andrew Sullivan
> Please excuse my clumbsy thums.
> 
> >> On Jan 19, 2015, at 16:21, Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>; wrote:
> >>
> >> On 1/19/2015 8:01 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> >> I think Richard Hill's argument in that message contains a number of
> >> faulty premises.  I disagree with most of the message.
> >
> >
> > Since we all wish to be perceived as fair and diligent and thorough,
> > it's tempting to want to take Richard's note to ICANN and respond to
> > its substance.
> >
> > However the approach he's taken is to complain about the IETF to
> > another body.
> >
> > And:
> >
> >    1.  The IETF followed its processes.  The submission to ICANN has
> > official IETF authorization.
> >
> >    2.  Any objections to that process needed to be pursued within the
> > IETF's extensive dispute resolution processes.
> >
> >    3.  Richard was an active participant in the IETF process.
> >
> > We cannot prevent Richard from taking his dissatisfaction with the
> > IETF's performance to ICANN, but we can choose how we respond.
> >
> > One choice I strongly recommend is to ignore his process complaints
> > completely.  Responding to them gives them credence.
> >
> > As for the rest, and as with all problematic criticism about the IETF,
> > I also suggest waiting for some indication that the criticisms have
> > gained traction with others.  Again, the more we respond to bogus
> > complaints, the more credence we lend them.
> >
> > d/
> > --
> > Dave Crocker
> > Brandenburg InternetWorking
> > bbiw.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ianaplan mailing list
> > Ianaplan@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ianaplan mailing list
> Ianaplan@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan