Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negotiations with ICANN
Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> Fri, 01 May 2015 18:33 UTC
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From: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 14:32:53 -0400
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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Cc: "ianaplan@ietf.org" <ianaplan@ietf.org>, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negotiations with ICANN
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John Klensin said: "Still from the SLA point of view, ICANN appears to have said "we cannot formally agree, in the SLA, to provisions you have believed were in effect for years"." [BA] Just to be clear, the MOU was not incorporated as an appendix into the SLA that ICANN refused to sign, though of course the SLA is a supplemental agreement, being supplemental to the MOU, so that there is an implicit reference there. So I don't think we can interpret ICANN's refusal to sign as a repudiation of the MOU (or even an indication that they would not agree to a similar Termination Clause at some point in the future). I would encourage others to leave it to them too -- attacks of speculation and amateur lawyering are rarely productive and tend to suppress more useful discussions." [BA] Similarly, I would not speculate about whether NTIA or members of Congress did in fact evaluate the proposed SLA and render a judgement or whether ICANN legal's interpretation of the NTIA-ICANN contract was valid, since we have no information on the former and the latter is a legal issue. On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:41 AM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > Hmm. I was a little concerned that your exchange with Andrew > might deepen the confusion. Let me try a different perspective > with the understanding that I'm speaking for myself only and > doing a certain amount of guessing -- I'm not enough part of > "the leadership" to speak for them even if I wanted to. > > --On Friday, May 01, 2015 14:31 +0100 Seun Ojedeji > <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 07:25:10PM +0100, Seun Ojedeji wrote: > >> > > >> > Do I understand this to mean that IETF wants to get it's > >> > RFP response to ICG activated and operational before > >> > conclusion of the transition > >> process? > >> > >> I don't think so. > >> > > > > Great. This is the response i expected and i would have been > > surprised if otherwise. Based on above then it may be > > important to clarify the section of the IAB chair's(your) > > statement below: > >... > > So generally speaking (and based on information available to > > me), it seem this is a timing issue and there may just be need > > to clarify from ICANN if they are fine with agreeing with the > > term post-NTIA. > > > > As you have rightly stated, I believe the current agreement > > should-be/is sufficient enough at ensuring IETF continue to > > get its usual IANA function service. > > There is, indeed, a timing issue with this and, IMO, most of it > has very little to do with IANAPlan or the transition process. > It helps me to think about what is going on as two separate > activities and threads. One is the regular, annual, process of > the IAOC and IAB working with ICANN to update the IANA SLA, > setting new targets and clarifying whatever needs to be > clarified. In part because that is mostly a contractual matter, > the IETF community has rarely been actively aware of those > discussions beyond the usual plenary reports (no particular > secrets, just the IAOC and IAB doing their jobs so there is some > hope of the rest of us being able to get technical/standards > work done). The other is the specific set of issues associated > with NTIA-IANA transition planning and this WG. > > Now, ever since the annual SLA approach was adopted (and really > going back to the March 2000 approval of the MOU included in RFC > 2860), the IETF (and, as far as we know, ICANN) have been > working based on the content of that document and some shared > assumptions and interpretations of it. For this year's version, > the IETF sought to clarify those relationships and > interpretations by incorporating some text into the SLA. From > the point of view of those SLA discussions, at least as I > understand it, nothing has changed: we are just repeating > existing agreements into the SLA. The fact that the decision to > clarify those points in the SLA to be sure of them arose from > IANAPlan discussions is, from the SLA point of view, a > coincidence: we could reasonably have included the same > provisions in the SLA at any time (and, from my personal point > of view, should have done so years ago). > > Still from the SLA point of view, ICANN appears to have said "we > cannot formally agree, in the SLA, to provisions you have > believed were in effect for years". That does not make me very > happy and, IMO, should not make anyone who has been depending on > the MOU very happy. Whether it is serious or not, and whether > it changes the way we look at and interpret even the current > SLA, is ultimately a contractual matter that I'm happy to leave > to the IAB, IAOC, and the IAOC's legal advisors. I would > encourage others to leave it to them too -- attacks of > speculation and amateur lawyering are rarely productive and tend > to suppress more useful discussions. > > Now, if the IAOC were to conclude either that it was urgent to > update the existing provisions and targets of the SLA or that > questions about our assumptions require an SLA update, now, that > would presumably be an issue with a schedule independent of any > transition-related calendar. > > The transition and IANAPlan-related issues are a different > matter with, as your comments suggest, a different schedule. > As you also suggest, there is at least a potential for ICANN to > agree to do something during the transition or post-transition > that they don't feel able to do now. > > john > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ianaplan mailing list > Ianaplan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan >
- [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negotiatio… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… 'Andrew Sullivan'
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… 'Andrew Sullivan'
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Update on IANA Transition & Negoti… Jefsey