Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN?
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 13 October 2015 18:56 UTC
Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA1C1A8866 for <ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MLpf5zitkpcX for <ianaplan@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A68561A8881 for <ianaplan@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qkas79 with SMTP id s79so12740316qka.0 for <ianaplan@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:54:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=tNmNT8PWHXtuKq3J83Qq+q8OSUGb4sNvDK/TIJshoTA=; b=xMC5/T3ezQfh+RyBDvDDN+VZ5IqwFAJ5xjAegQRkwYj+Rl42pISWaj/mWnfFuPO2/G vEnqNq1LMN73esaj/IEntqSyi/fLyKSXBz3ly/NPyAz11VJ4/fkNNE8y5jkAiYlAXc+d hr9qDtWn0SWwFu4Kk3jz35ZtAgDY4Tw6R6Ffax1YsZCsq0U283SumwTfG0rutNpWQTJ5 DE50C99WzF9qQpRrxSTqukPFabKALu29jPtfDTuRkroVd2uQHo5ZXzb2mSaIS5zB54NJ ggihRL+0Ls7Q4hcOVbHHwUjFhfbrZVSCy3oR5BZDe0GoYk79mLcmV7CvShW1gr3nD8m0 SyVA==
X-Received: by 10.55.195.71 with SMTP id a68mr43040148qkj.15.1444762487929; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d66sm1731678qgd.36.2015.10.13.11.54.46 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\))
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_794146A1-F1C2-4EB2-86FB-5BB4E431EC0C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.1
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <561D47DD.2010704@acm.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:54:43 -0700
Message-Id: <FBE2CBC8-D4EA-4E4B-9FFB-A294659B341C@gmail.com>
References: <56181181.50002@gmail.com> <D23F19BE.27A31A%Jonne.soininen@nsn.com> <561D47DD.2010704@acm.org>
To: avri@acm.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104)
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ianaplan/_4xaqoRYpDuQQb-6lx3SPQLJNGM>
Cc: ianaplan@ietf.org, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN?
X-BeenThere: ianaplan@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IANA Plan <ianaplan.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ianaplan>, <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ianaplan/>
List-Post: <mailto:ianaplan@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan>, <mailto:ianaplan-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:56:44 -0000
Avri, > On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> wrote: > > Hi, > > One essential difference is that IETF has an appeal mechanism on process > to the Internet Society Board of Trustees. > This is the backstop for the IETF. The Internet Society Board of Trustees is the last step in the multi-step IETF appeals process. The IETF appeals process is documented in RFC2026. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2026.txt The IETF appeals process is actually used periodically. Appeals and their resolution are listed at: https://www.ietf.org/iesg/appeal.html https://www.iab.org/appeals/ On a related topic, the procedure to recall sitting IESG, IAB, and IAOC members is defined in RFC7437. See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7437 These processes seem to work (that is, "are running code” so to speak). They might serve as a model for other organizations as I think they are a good example for multi-stakeholder self-governance. Bob > >> From what I have learned in the ICANN Accountability process, the most > legal training I have ever had, the IETF as the IETF might have trouble > suing anyone given that is is not a legal person. Fortunately the IETF > does not live in an environment where suits, of either kind, are the norm. > > avri > > On 10-Oct-15 12:57, Soininen, Jonne (Nokia - FI/Espoo) wrote: >> Hi Brian, >> >> like Bernard and Dave said, part of the story is the press tries to spin >> an interesting story. Partly the story is that there are strong emotions >> in play at the ICANN in this topic. >> >> So, the topic is ICANN accountability. The claim is that as long as there >> was the NTIA contract on IANA there has been a backstop on ICANN's >> decisions, especially the board's. The theory is that if ICANN (the staff >> and the board, not the community) would do something silly NTIA could at >> least threaten to take IANA away and pressure ICANN to reconsider the >> decision get to the right path. However, with the IANA stewardship >> transition there would be no backstop anymore and potentially a future >> board could go rogue and do whatever they want disregarding the community. >> Therefore, there needs to be new accountability mechanisms. >> >> The main accountability mechanisms discussed have been spilling the >> complete board, removing a board member and control/veto the ICANN budget >> and bylaws changes. There is pretty much consensus that in some form or >> another these are reasonable requirements. However, the discussion is >> about what is the right enforceability mechanism. Enforcement means how >> can you legally enforce ICANN/board do something - basically, how can you >> sue ICANN if the board/staff doesn't do what the community expects it to >> do. >> >> In the IETF, we have a bit different approach to these things. I wouldn't >> think we would have ever the discussion the IETF community should be able >> to take the IESG or IAB to court. Interesting thought, though... ;) >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jonne. > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Ianaplan mailing list > Ianaplan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan
- [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Dave Crocker
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John C Klensin
- [Ianaplan] I CAN NAB THE NET [was : What's happen… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Soininen, Jonne (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Bob Hinden
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John Levine
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John Levine
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson
- Re: [Ianaplan] What's happening at ICANN? Seth Johnson