Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IETF
John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org> Tue, 12 May 2015 14:08 UTC
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From: John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org>
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To: Roger Jørgensen <rogerj@gmail.com>
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Cc: "ianaplan@ietf.org" <ianaplan@ietf.org>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IETF
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On May 12, 2015, at 1:38 PM, Roger Jørgensen <rogerj@gmail.com> wrote: > ... > I don't see PTI as a pointless idea, what I see as a pointless idea is > to have it > as a subsidiary of ICANN. If we're going to go down that road, why not go all > the way and make it a separate entity that stands on it's own - ICANN's > role would be to fund it for now. At some later stage other could fund it. > > ... on the other hand, done right it would separate the different roles ICANN > have in this world, make it clearer that IANA is just a function that ICANN > host. However, there are other and better ways to do that to. Indeed - the more obvious approach would have been to move "the structure representing the DNS community" external to ICANN (and then have that contract with ICANN for IANA naming services), but as noted by Milton, such an approach quickly raises concerns about risk of capture and stability of the resulting entities. It should be noted that there is likely some benefit received from Post-Transition-IANA (PTI) approach, in that it helps clarify roles and processes which are presently commingled in manner which interferes with assessment of accountability to the names community. It also provides some benefit with respect to the identification of IANA costs. The present challenge with PTI is that its mission, governance model, and legal structure are all still to be determined[1][2][3], and as such, it is unclear if one can responsibly contract with it for the delivery of IANA services. Even though existing IANA staff and knowledge would transfer to the PTI and presumably function as it does today, the new entity will have its own governing Board (which could simply be an ICANN-designated or could be some other form with various community representation involved) and mission, and either of these could have impact on the delivery of IANA services. For example, PTI’s governing Board could establish mechanisms that go beyond IANA policy implementation but appear otherwise reasonable (e.g. collection of suggestions for IANA policy improvement or quality assessment of new IANA policy as received); without knowing the governance structure or mission, it is not at all apparent how we'd all collectively keep PTI focusing “on course” as the IANA operator under such circumstances, aside from the obviously destabilizing option of terminating the relation and contracting with another party for IANA operations. In addition, PTI has a funding dependency on ICANN and a likely dependency on the use of other ICANN cost centers for fulfillment of its mission. This doesn’t create any risk if PTI is effectively governed by ICANN, but could prove ‘interesting’ if PTI has independent governance structure and undertakes a direction and/or decisions which ICANN does not support. If ICANN has an obligation to fulfill certain the contractual responsibilities for IANA services, then it is unlikely to that any misalignment would result in PTI’s inability to deliver on those duties, but it is less clear if that’s the case should the performance obligations be held only by PTI. The IETF should consider all of the above, and the circumstances of its relationship with ICANN via the existing MOU, and determine what is the best manner to serve the protocol parameter community. It might also be helpful to provide guidance on some of the open aspects of PTI, in order to shape it in a direction which best meets the community’s needs. May you live in interesting times... /John [1] FAQ on External Legal Counsel Memorandum Proposed Post-Transition Structure - https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/legal-counsel-memo-post-transition-structure-faq-08may15-en.pdf <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/legal-counsel-memo-post-transition-structure-faq-08may15-en.pdf> [2] "Summary of Legal Structure”, Sidley Austin LLP (CWG external counsel), 3 May 2015 - http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-May/003062.html <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-May/003062.html> [3] "PTI: Board Duties and Subsidiary Costs”, Sidley Austin LLP (CWG external counsel), 28 April 2015 - http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/attachments/20150505/8f61bbdd/PTI-0001.PDF <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/attachments/20150505/8f61bbdd/PTI-0001.PDF> Disclaimer: my views alone.
- [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IETF Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Roger Jørgensen
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Roger Jørgensen
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- [Ianaplan] PTI Structure/implications (was: Re: C… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Russ Housley
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Levine
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Roger Jørgensen
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Lynn St.Amour
- [Ianaplan] ICANN Board response to the CWG draft … Lynn St.Amour
- Re: [Ianaplan] ICANN Board response to the CWG dr… Grace Abuhamad
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] ICANN Board response to the CWG dr… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Jari Arkko
- [Ianaplan] Everybody, take a breather (Was: Re: C… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] CWG draft and its impact on the IE… Stephen Farrell