Re: [Iasa20] Terminology agani: IETF LLC Executive Director versus IETF Executive Direector

[John C Klensin <[e-mail]>]

Alissa,

I'm on travel and have  been very constrained about following
this list due to pressures outside the IETF.   That will get
worse through the weekend, so will not be able to carry on a
discussion.  However...

--On Tuesday, January 8, 2019 10:26 -0500 Alissa Cooper
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi John,
> 
> Following up on a couple of points here.
> 
>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 8:43 AM, John C Klensin
>> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 11:23 +1300 Brian E
>> Carpenter <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I believe that I was one of the first to mention that some
>>> older documents referred to the IETF Executive Director as
>>> being a direct support role for the IESG, and that this could
>>> be confusing. Well, it could still be confusing, but not
>>> *very* confusing, and I think we've flushed out most of the
>>> troublesome instances in the various documents that are now
>>> being updated or obsoleted. In a strict sense John is
>>> correct, but the phrase "IETF LLC Executive Director" is a
>>> bit too clumsy for comfort. So at the moment I think we're
>>> OK. 
>> 
>> I'm certainly willing to live with that decision as long as a
>> non-trivial number of people in addition to the document
>> authors hold it.   On the other hand, I have a lot of
>> difficulty understanding a logic system in which "IETF LLC
>> Executive Director" is a bit too clumsy but "Managing
>> Director, IETF Secretariat" is not.  
> 
> I think the logic is that the LLC Board has to hire for the
> executive director position. So the title of that person has
> an influence as far as recruiting, signaling to candidates
> what the job involves or how it compares to other roles at
> similar organizations, and what it looks like on a resume for
> someone who moves on from the job in the future. None of this
> applies to Alexa's IETF-facing title, and she has her own
> separate AMS title.

Sure.  But, for that purpose, I can see little difference
between "IETF Executive Director" and "IETF LLC Executive
Director" or "Executive Director, IETF LLC".  Both are
"Executive Director" titles -- no one has suggested "CIDC"
("Chief IETF Dog Catcher") as a title.  For particularly
sensitive recruiters doing due diligence, the LLC-related titles
might actually be an advantage because "the IETF" makes a big
enough deal of being bottom-up and volunteer participant driven
that "IETF Executive Director" could have the appearance of
title inflation, implying authority well beyond the scope of the
job.  For an analogy, think about VP titles in large
organizations: Generally a C-level position and a fairly big
deal with broad responsibilities... except in parts of the
banking industry, where the title is often given to managers of
two-bit branches with little independent authority, causing some
skepticism (and even derision among recruiters.

And, of course, what the IETF calls the position and the formal
title in the LLC need not be the same as long as the difference
does not add to the confusion.

  best,
   john