Re: [Iasa20] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4071bis-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Mon, 08 April 2019 17:08 UTC

Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1EA12002F; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-BeKKr9zzEF; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA0831200B7; Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id y7so1711913wrn.11; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=extTYvO/X0rbEyg8rnRA5RQqb/FnN2qyvZkYRejznHE=; b=WtutWgij5LSuoocAH+cyt9fm1UpbFJvDeaqec5lO+iZGMG28stfUUURy4X+HeYMz/V 2dX/0Grd+kJ3Rz2EuZnx0FH/hZIMao8is+MLln2KFGmrYeLsVYx8+RjuZ15BqeLR/Q5c Eai/85fd5bVrwAChcNX5lNG+a75q2PDWQ/5h9DH2oaoZ7uB59zGbWrhJ9mXeDzOg+iOF k/9kcuzXfXwTinf/6NcGKoD1nt1ouHkt+/wXC3YMXVWmyF4Z2lc+zYhng6D/2XhoKRNB /yrRUFYplrAH3gE40JvpROgYXWKRasT2R7LndAVyAcfhbI/sR3KkcDnqR0C9DKkUO8qn rswA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=extTYvO/X0rbEyg8rnRA5RQqb/FnN2qyvZkYRejznHE=; b=rm10bFr/7zicCoSliYk6V+gfcoSSNS3mZdrHT/UrjjBAP1U70QYW8s7I29KoAUzMCU eZ4/EtWRMsalJsbxNIQ+pQoLMGOyGD3ZiTaICAmp5PZu3/gwQtJP2c9y591+p3y9NT1m o5QGFej+NlGseNfrdA1cnobvV6y4RZKbcFcQuda+KBqARuMyv6whJCqjbjqPMQ2uNp44 j+wi5oY5ANIUrm3fUDIg7VqMujE4RjKJFBfZBWMns157HaIINF+0tH/jI40caKFUzX/J 6HJqadQSDr2+4txmab6DmrN3J8cVyyk4RSre8TVrKgh05Ny3N1+hjWR4BK5WXnJsrC6R dlwg==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVzjqNw4A5K70l9rel5F4NXJRgqyUt+jv/qUn+IXZPwcN1PVB6J sZGrKKVxSfx1o6+yspWtyTU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw+QraMG9FxtiKb85Soq0tK/TPgL6gZDlTqdxmjMT33NHmKmZgEwIgr5aqB4RKR1mt7Ussmsg==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:f088:: with SMTP id n8mr20164145wro.112.1554743322083; Mon, 08 Apr 2019 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.0.199] (c-24-5-53-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.5.53.184]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k9sm41540745wru.55.2019.04.08.10.08.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Apr 2019 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\))
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+9kkMBNVEFZQWO8c8g2AARZ7xidZLYGF1BhJnXvULkzrPBkSA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:08:35 -0700
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4071bis@ietf.org, Jon Peterson <jon.peterson@neustar.biz>, IASA 2 WG <iasa20@ietf.org>, iasa2-chairs@ietf.org, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <14668DC0-72BA-4AC2-ABDB-FB4832EC96E4@gmail.com>
References: <155470226964.18209.2289908384768506570.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+9kkMB40Op1igA4emnkB=XWdj7ZzuUrK_5nTWBnW928FVW9pg@mail.gmail.com> <0B892B67-6402-4898-A041-C232CA4A2E35@vigilsec.com> <CA+9kkMBNVEFZQWO8c8g2AARZ7xidZLYGF1BhJnXvULkzrPBkSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iasa20/FixZyx0d2fANKPmbgi3TYmk89-Y>
Subject: Re: [Iasa20] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4071bis-08: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: iasa20@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: =?iso-8859-1?q?Discussions_relating_to_reorganising_the_IETF_administrative_structures_in_the_so_called_=93IASA_2=2E0=94_project=2E?= <iasa20.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iasa20/>
List-Post: <mailto:iasa20@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2019 17:08:47 -0000

Ted,

> On Apr 8, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 9:51 AM Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Speaking personally, I believe consideration to this point was given.  See the threads leading up to Jason's message with the title "Consensus on Director Sources and Number"  August 1, 2018.
> 
> I agree that this was discussed, but I can see that a one-year term for the IESG appointment would work better with the way that the IESG assigns various people to jobs.  That gets revisited every March.  So, if we really want the IESG to be able to pick someone other than the IETF Chair, the one-year term does seem to be a better fit.
> 
> But shifting that often would be terrible for the Board.  As it stands, there's a lot of context in all of 
> this and that amount of transition is just bad for forward progress.  Since this appointee has to act on behalf of the whole organization (as all board members do), having them have less context than the other members is already bad; shifting to one year would make it potentially much worse.  I think that would make this much closer to a liaison role, with all the issues that entails.

I agree, and to add, I think it would also be terrible for the IETF.   Having a longer term membership is good to keep the LLC aligned with the needs of the IETF.   

For the same reasons, in my view, it SHOULD be the IETF Chair.   With the usual “should” caveat unless there is a good reason to have have someone else.

Bob


> 
> I believe Barry's DISCUSS was "was this choice made deliberately?" and the answer to that is clear: yes.  We could take this as a signal to re-litigate it, but that is not the point of the IESG review and would not be an appropriate reaction to this DISCUSS.  That would, in fact, shift it over the line in the DISCUSS criteria document to DISCUSS non-criteria:
> 
> Disagreement with informed WG decisions that do not exhibit problems outlined in Section 3.1 (DISCUSS Criteria). In other words, disagreement in preferences among technically sound approaches.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> iasa20 mailing list
> iasa20@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20