Re: [Iasa20] 6635bis

On 26-Apr-19 10:32, Bob Hinden wrote:
> Sean,
> 
>> On Apr 25, 2019, at 11:14 AM, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!  While I am not sending this message on behalf of the IETF Administration LLC, I have to admit that I am reading the IASA2.0 I-Ds with more interest as an LLC officer because I am somewhere nearer the front of the go-to-jail line if something goes terribly wrong ;)
>>
>> With this in mind, after reading many of the the IASA2.0-related I-Ds the simple IAOC to LLC terminology swap totally makes sense.  For draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc6635bis, I am wondering whether more should be done.  Specifically, I am wondering whether the language about how the RSE services are delivered should be loosened or at least made internally consistent.  As I read it, draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc6635bis does include a reference to an “employment agreement or contracting plans, as appropriate” as it pertains to the RSOC working with the LLC concerning RSE services.  But, the rest of the draft, at least to me, reads as if the LLC will contract these services out with no wiggle room for an employee to do them.

I can't tell whether Sean is referring to the RFC Series Editor (a single person) or to the RFC Production Center function (a team and its hardware and software), or the RFC Publisher (also a team and its hardware and software). The three cases are separate.

Re the Editor, the draft says "The RSE is appointed by the IAB, but formally hired by the LLC." That leaves it ambiguous whether "hired" means hired as an employee or hired as a contractor, which is fine. However, since the RSE has editorial independence, my guess is that a contracting model is much more suitable than an at-will employee model. In any case, the IAB is in control of this choice.

Re the Production Center, that is clearly stated as a "paid contractor", as is the "RFC Publisher contractor".

To me it would make no sense to have *individuals* employed by the LLC who are part of either of those teams. So it's all or nothing: the Production Center and the Publisher would have to be either 100% in-house employees or 100% contracted out. But why we'd want the LLC, which we were promised would be lightweight and cheap, to starting hiring software and operations staff and buying or renting servers, is a bit beyond me.

>> The slant towards contracting made sense prior to forming the LLC, but now that the LLC has been formed these functions could be performed by an employee. 

Specifically, I would regard that as a broken promise: not lightweight, not cheap.

>> For any given role, the LLC might find it preferable to have the role filled by an employee versus a contractor for the purposes of being able to offer better benefits, to more easily comply with employment/tax law, or for other reasons. The original IASA model didn’t offer as much flexibility since hiring decisions were ultimately ISOC’s.  If the language in the draft was tweaked to accommodate both contractors and employees then this document would not, in mind at least, unnecessarily restrict the LLC.

It would open the door to a heavyweight, expensive LLC.

>> Before I submit a list of potential edits to this list for draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc6635bis, I just wanted to see whether these type of changes would even be palatable?

Not to me, if you hadn't guessed ;-)

> With my editors hat on, the direction I received for doing this update was that changes like this was out of scope for the IASA 2.0 process.

In the charter:

>>> This working group is chartered to document the normative changes to IETF
>>> administrative structures and processes necessary to effectuate this change.

This certainly doesn't seem like a necessary change, and BTW it's the IAB that "owns" the RFC Editor arrangements, not the IETF.

> I also suspect that once the LLC has been in operation for a year or two, that there may be a range of things that the community will want to update. 

Very likely. But I can promise a lot of noise if people propose to move away from the lightweight cheap LLC we were promised.

    Brian

> 
> Bob
> 
>   
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> spt
>>
>> PS - I am sending this message right before some family-related activities so I might be slow to respond.
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