Re: [Iasa20] Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4071bis-08: (with COMMENT)

[Joseph Lorenzo Hall <[e-mail]>]

(Sorry to have taken so long to get to these, Mirja! Removing all CCs other
than IASA WG.)

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 11:30 AM Mirja Kühlewind via Datatracker <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> One high level question: I would have expected that this document also says
> something about interaction with the IETF Trust. Or are there none?
>
>
The draft points to a separate ID that discusses the Trust issues, which
were largely separate from the rfc4071bis effort, from Section 1:

"The details of how this is done are outside the scope of this document but
are covered in [I-D.ietf-iasa2-trust-update]."

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-iasa2-trust-update-03

Does that cover your comment here?


> I believe my other comments below are mostly editorial, however, I also
> have a
> few question. Sorry, if those questions have been discussed earlier.
>
> 1) I find it rather confusing to have a reference to [ietf101-slides] in
> the
> doc (given the pictures there are not fully up to date). I don't think that
> particular reference is needed to make the point about transparency.
>

That reference is less about pictures but to point to where WG consensus
was achieved on the "default public" rule for the LLC Board with respect to
transparency (the default being everything is public without a specific
justification for something being kept confidential).


> 2) Sec 4.4.: "Unification: The IETF LLC provides the corporate legal home
> for
>       the IETF, the Internet Architecture Board (IAB), and the Internet
>       Research Task Force (IRTF), and financial support for the
>       operation of the RFC Editor."
> I'm wondering why the RFC Editor is named here but no other services the
> IETF
> contracts with...?
>
> Similar in section 7: "environment within which the work of the IETF, IAB,
>    IRTF, and RFC Editor can remain vibrant and productive."
> I understand that the money flow is different for e.g. IANA, however, they
> also
> provide an important function.
>
> And similar in section 7.7.: "The IETF LLC exists to support the IETF,
> IAB, and
> IRTF.  Therefore,
>    the IETF LLC's funding and all revenues, in-kind contributions, and
>    other income that comprise that funding shall be used solely to
>    support activities related to the IETF, IAB, IRTF, and RFC Editor,
>    and for no other purposes."
>

I'll need some help from folks more in tune with Editor/Secretariat/etc.
relationships but my sense is that we tried to capture the major
contract-signing entities (LLC Board, IAB) and the main features of the
IETF here. Would you like to see a more fulsome list in both of these
places as to entities that make up the IETF? (We did have diagrams at one
point but omg those made brains hurt, despite RLB's crack abilities.)


> 3) sec 4.7: Is it appropriate to have the LLC Broad review its own decision
> instead of having an independent entity to do that?
>
>
The previous structure had the ISOC Board as the ultimate appeals chain,
but since the whole effort here was to increase independence of the IETF
from ISOC, the LLC Board is where the administrative buck stops, so to
speak. The recall process is noted in that section as the mechanism for the
community to deal with extreme dissatisfaction with the LLC Board.


> 4) Regarding the IESG delegate for the LLC Board, sec 6.4 states that the
> term
> is 2 years. That makes sense if the IETF chairs takes that position which
> should be the usual case. However, if another IESG member would take the
> position, is the expectation that the IESG can only select someone whose AD
> term just started? Or would that person be the delegate for 2 years even
> if he
> or she leaves the IESG after one year? Also would the IESG be able to
> remove or
> change the delegate before the end of that term? I guess that second
> question
> also applies to the appointee from ISOC...
>
>
The text is silent as to what the IESG can do to remove its own appointee
(and because this isn't a NomCom-appointed member the removal vote doesn't
apply to this person). It would need to be the IETF recall process.
Presumably ISOC can do whatever it wants if their appointee resigns or is
not performing to satisfaction.


> 5) sec 6.12: "The IETF, IAB and IRTF chairs, and the chair
> of ISOC's Board, will be ineligible for this Board Chair role."
> Are the IAB and IRTF chair listed here because they could be NomCom- or
> IESG-
> selected Board members? Or is that an oversight?
>

I'm not sure I understand this. We wanted the various chairs to not have
the burden/responsiblity of chairing the LLC Board, and certainly IAB and
IRTF chairs could be selected by NomCom or IESG for an LLC Board role.


> Also then this is picked up in section 8.1 again:
> "The IETF, ISOC Board, IAB, or IRTF chair cannot be chair of the
>       IETF LLC Board, though they may serve as a Director."
> However the following sentence in the same section, seem to assume that
> this
> policy is not defined in this doc but developed by the Board in future.
> "The
> Board is expected to maintain a Conflict of Interest policy for
>    the IETF LLC. "
>

We wanted to offload as much "Board policy" to the Board itself to develop,
and you'll see that there are a lot of documents that they need to have in
place, and soon! The COI policy here is much more about financial conflicts
of interest (say a Director has an interest in a business contracting with
IETF LLC). So the rule that the Chairs can't serve as LLC Board Chair is
one that we felt we wanted here and not in the "board-developed" policy
documents.


> nit:
> s/agreements that that meet a significant materiality threshold/agreements
> that
> meet a significant materiality threshold/ -> 2x that
>

Thank you very much!


-- 
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
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