Re: [Iasa20] Comments on draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4844-bis-01

[Bob Hinden <[e-mail]>]

Hi

> On Feb 9, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2019 23:48, Richard Barnes wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 1:44 PM Russ Housley <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Alissa:
>>> 
>>> I think we want the hiring/firing of the RFC Series Editor to stay with
>>> the IAB, but the funding to stay with IASA.
>>> 
>> 
>> This is not a reasonable thing to ask.
> 
> I'm way behind in being up to speed on this wg's stuff, so I
> may be off base here, but I reckon I strongly agree with Russ.
> The IAB are picked by the community and ought be the ones to
> hire a new RSE if one is needed. With no disrespect meant to
> trades-persons, I'd be fine with the hiring of electricians
> being handled internal to IASA; but not an RSE - the context
> here means those are utterly different.

+1

The relations between the IAB and the LLC is defined in RFC6635 and updated for IASA2.0 in draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc6635bis-03.   Specifically Section 4. "Administrative Implementation".

Bob


> 
> Cheers,
> S.
> 
> PS: I'd have said the above even were I not an incoming IAB
> member and hope not to be involved in picking a new RSE whilst
> on the IAB:-)
> 
>> One of the key driving factors for
>> this whole endeavor it makes no legal sense for an organization to delegate
>> its hiring / firing / contracting decisions to people external to that
>> organization.
>> 
>> By all means, the IASA should work with the IAB on the RSE, but since the
>> IASA is ultimately the responsible party, it can't totally cede
>> responsibility.  The "operational oversight" text that's in there now seems
>> like it captures this accurately.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> The decision whether the ED serves on the ROC should not be determined by
>>> this document.  If the IAB wants the ED to be part of RSOC, they can make
>>> that appointment.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps it would be best to make this change:
>>> 
>>> OLD:
>>> 
>>>   The IASA is tasked with providing the funding for and operational
>>>   oversight of the RFC Editor.
>>> 
>>> NEW:
>>> 
>>>   The IASA is tasked with providing the funding for the RFC Editor.
>>>   The IETF Executive Director is tasked with overnight of contracts
>>>   and operational agreements related to the RFC Editor.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't see how this accomplishes what you claim above.  The IETF ED is
>> part of the IASA.  And especially given that, the second sentence here is
>> really just micromanagement of the LLC.
>> 
>> --Richard
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Russ
>>> 
>>> On Feb 8, 2019, at 8:11 PM, Alissa Cooper <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Earlier this week the IAB discussed whether to
>>> put draft-ietf-iasa2-rfc4844-bis-01 out for community review. In reviewing
>>> it I felt there were some clarifications needed before it would be ready
>>> and the IAB thought the most appropriate path would be to bring those to
>>> the WG for resolution first.
>>> 
>>> I haven’t started my AD review of 4071bis yet (hope to next week), but I
>>> think 4071bis has a problem in that the definition of “IASA” in that
>>> document is broken (it refers to the definition in 4071, which it itself is
>>> obsoleting). And until it is clear how we are defining “IASA,” I have
>>> trouble with statements such as the following from Section 3.3 in 4844bis:
>>> 
>>> "The IASA is tasked with providing the funding for and operational oversight
>>> of the RFC Editor.”
>>> 
>>> Is the RSOC part of IASA? It’s pretty hard to tell without a good
>>> definition of IASA, which we do not currently have IMO. (I think there is a
>>> further problem with the sentence above, which is that the funding comes
>>> from the LLC, and it would be better to be that specific.)
>>> 
>>> While looking at Section 3.3, I don’t think this text belongs there since
>>> this document is about the RFC series and editor, not IASA generally:
>>> 
>>> "The IETF LLC Board provides oversight of the IASA, and the IETF Executive
>>> Director is the chief actor for the IASA.”
>>> 
>>> I also find lack of clarity between 4844bis Section 3 and 6635bis Section
>>> 3. For example, 4844bis says:
>>> 
>>> "The IETF Executive Director works with the IAB to identify suitable persons
>>> or entities to fulfill the mandate of the RFC Editor.”
>>> 
>>> While 6635bis says:
>>> 
>>> "For all decisions that affect the RSE individually (e.g., hiring and firing),
>>> the RSOC prepares recommendations for the IAB, but the final decision is
>>> the responsibility of the IAB.”
>>> 
>>> But under the current model (which I presume we plan to keep), the ED is a
>>> member of the RSOC. So does the ED work directly with the IAB? Or
>>> indirectly with the IAB through the RSOC? Or both?
>>> 
>>> 4844bis also says:
>>> 
>>> "The IETF Executive Director may define additional operational
>>> requirements and policies for management purposes to meet the
>>> requirements defined by the various communities.”
>>> 
>>> I wonder if this is really consistent with what is envisioned in 6635bis.
>>> 
>>> I also find it odd that the budget for an RSE search is discussed in
>>> 6635bis, while the budget for the RFC Editor function overall is discussed
>>> in 4844bis — is the separation meaningful? Since the LLC Board approves the
>>> whole IETF budget, presumably what 4844bis says about the RFC Editor budget
>>> applies to the search budget mentioned in 6635bis as well, but since it’s
>>> not explicit it isn’t totally clear.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alissa
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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