Re: [Ibnemo] 答复: Defining a Common Model for intent

["Bert Wijnen (IETF)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Bob (long time no see) and others.

I am new to the whole topic of Intent Based Network Monitoring/Management.
I have to say though that for now I am somewhat in agreement with Bob's comments
that we should not introduce (too) many layers of translation. That would sound/look
(in my ears/views) too much like an organization with too many layers of management.

A "customer" (end-user) should not be required to understand all the technologies at all layers.
But further down (or up if you like) it is much better if there is "(technical) knowledge"
about the job at hand.

My 2 cents for now

Bert

On 02/06/15 07:24, Natale, Bob wrote:
>
> With all due respect:
>
> 1. I would recommend that anyone working on this topic, if he/she has not done so already, understand the “policy continuum” 
> construct … a web search for ‘"policy continuum" Strassner’ will identify a good set of sources to start from for the network 
> management domain.
>
> 2. Intents are statements of objectives or goals … they tend  to originate at the “higher” levels of the policy continuum … at 
> some point (at “lower” layers of the policy continuum) they are translated to E-C-A type rules (more deterministic than intents) 
>  for execution … much normally happens in between.
>
> 3. Designing solutions that minimize the number of translations between the statement of intent and the execution rules is 
> essential .. and _/possibly/_ enabled by contemporary technologies via which “higher” layer intents can be translated to “lower” 
> layer intents before hitting the ultimate E-C-A execution layer. This is a highly speculative statement on my part. But the “need” 
> for multiple intermediate E-C-A translations at multiple layers of the policy continuum has heretofore been a major impediment to 
> progress on policy-based management, IMHO.
>
> The “with all due respect” aspect refers to the fact that the work that the active contributors to this thread are doing is very 
> positive even if none of my comments are acted upon.
>
> Avanti,
>
> BobN
>
> *From:* Ibnemo [mailto:[e-mail]] *On Behalf Of *zhangyali (D)
> *Sent:* Monday, June 01, 2015 11:52 PM
> *To:* PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ; Susan Hares; [e-mail]
> *Cc:* [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> *Subject:* [Ibnemo] 答复: Defining a Common Model for intent
>
> Hi Pedro,
>
> Thanks for reviewing the draft and giving modification.
>
> The question you have mentioned is a very important point for the abstraction of intent model. Maybe we can propose the transport 
> market as a analogy.
>
> 1.A customer wants to transport his goods from A to B. So his intent is getting his goods from A to B without carrying about how 
> to do it. Then his intent is transferred to the transportation system.
>
> 2.This system analyzes customer’s requirement, and choose a suitable way to complete the requirement. For example, the system 
> choose truck as the means. So the intent of transportation system is transferring the goods with truck.
>
> 3.The driver of this truck analyze the path from A to B, and choose a most appropriate path to complete this order which will save 
> more time. So  the intent of driver may be transferring the goods with the least time. Then the driver will start the engine, step 
> on the gas, etc.
>
> From this analogy, the ultimate effect is the same, namely, transfer the goods from A to B. But the specific intent of different 
> roles has some differences which depends on user’ role, knowledge, responsibility, etc. For example, transportation system is 
> responsible for transporting goods, and he know the various ways. So he can form his intent by rendering the upper customer’s intent.
>
> Supposing we divide users into different layers according to the implementation series, users in upper layer expresses his intent 
> as /what/ he want without having the knowledge about /how/ to do it. Then the /how/ procedure will be transferred to /what /in the 
> lower layer according to knowledge and context. These transfer procedure lead to the completion of requirement. Same with the 
> example in draft. Although the ultimate effect is same, the focus is different which will bring out the differentiation of intent.
>
> This is just my immature opinion about intent. Do you think the differentiation of intent to complete the same thing is important 
> and reasonable?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Yali
>
> *发件人**:*PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ [mailto:[e-mail]]
> *发送时间:* 2015年6月1日 17:15
> *收件人:* Susan Hares; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> *抄送:* [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> *主题:* Re: [Ibnemo] Defining a Common Model for intent
>
> Hi,
>
> A small clarification proposal for draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xia-ibnemo-icim/.
>
> In section 2.4, I would leave the following as a paragraph
>
> For example, in the network area the intent of end-users could be
> safe connectivity between two sites which a technology independent
> and device independent requirement. For business-based network
> designers, the network connectivity can be selected which is device-
> independent but technology specific. An example of the business-based
> technology is the L3VPN.
> And change:
> For network administrators, intent can be
> specific operations on a set of devices such as configuring IP
> addresses on network servers in a data center.
>
> To
>
> For network administrators, intent can be <new>defining a network topology like a router connected to a firewall, connected to a load balancer and this to two L2 networks where WWW servers sit or specifying the</new> operations on a set of devices such as configuring IP addresses on network servers in a data center.
>   
> Rationale behind this is again, that intent should be anything that is invariant and that expresses/what/  a network operator/administrator may need to do, as opposed to/how/  he would do that, i.e. The router is a HW device from vendor X or a virtual machine running a specific routing daemon over a given data-path implementation.
> Best, /PA
>
> ---
>
> Dr. Pedro A. Aranda Gutiérrez
>
> Technology Exploration -
>
> Network Innovation & Virtualisation
>
> email: pedroa d0t aranda At telefonica d0t com
>
> Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
>
> C/ D. Ramón de la Cruz,84
>
> 28006 Madrid, Spain
>
> Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden.
>
> Fragen sind da, um gestellt zu werden.
>
> Georg Kreisler
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y 
> es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la 
> lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha 
> recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.
>
> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the 
> individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in 
> error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it.
>
> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é 
> para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a 
> leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta 
> mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ibnemo mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ibnemo