Re: Late review management (Re: [Icar] independence of reviews; variability)

Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com> Thu, 11 March 2004 15:46 UTC

Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07467 for <icar-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:46:20 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1SNd-0004df-KZ for icar-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:54 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i2BFjrSa017825 for icar-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:53 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1SNc-0004dQ-TV for icar-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:52 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07440 for <icar-web-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SNa-0002mb-00 for icar-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:45:50 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SMg-0002dL-00 for icar-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:44:55 -0500
Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SLo-0002Uc-00 for icar-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:44:00 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1SLp-0004ZA-5w; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:44:01 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B1SLS-0004WA-FA for icar@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:43:38 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07320 for <icar@ietf.org>; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:43:34 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SLQ-0002Rv-00 for icar@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:43:36 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SKS-0002IY-00 for icar@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:42:36 -0500
Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1B1SJR-000241-00 for icar@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:41:33 -0500
Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Mar 2004 07:46:26 -0800
X-BrightmailFiltered: true
Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i2BFetU7018907; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:40:56 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <200403111540.i2BFetU7018907@rtp-core-1.cisco.com>
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
cc: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>, icar@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Late review management (Re: [Icar] independence of reviews; variability)
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:53:32 -0800. <332932651.1078934012@localhost>
Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com
User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI)
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:40:55 -0500
From: Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com>
Sender: icar-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: icar-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: icar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/icar>, <mailto:icar-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Improved Cross-Area Review <icar.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:icar@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:icar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/icar>, <mailto:icar-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60

Harald> The right way to deal with ADs that are markedly at odds with IETF 
Harald> consensus is to correct them, reeducate them or fire them. 

This view is hopelessly utopian.  

There really does  need to be something in the process  which prevents an AD
with an  agenda from blocking  the output of  any WGs which don't  share his
agenda.  

One advantage  of earlier, wider review  is that it may  make it politically
more difficult for  an AD to carry out his own  political agenda.  The trick
is to  find reviewers  outside the WG  who are  experts in the  WG's subject
matter and  who don't have  agendas of  their own.  If  we can't come  to an
understanding of how to do this, then ICAR itself may be too utopian. 







_______________________________________________
Icar mailing list
Icar@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/icar