Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt
Daniel Havey <dahavey@microsoft.com> Tue, 23 July 2019 00:31 UTC
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From: Daniel Havey <dahavey@microsoft.com>
To: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>, Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "iccrg@irtf.org" <iccrg@irtf.org>, Osman Ertugay <Osman.Ertugay@microsoft.com>
Thread-Topic: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:30:54 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iccrg/sryCibY5IfHPOSKhZY1H6-7vEOw>
Subject: Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt
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Cool, thanks Michael. Will definitely take a look at the references š. From: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 5:24 PM To: Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org> Cc: iccrg@irtf.org; Daniel Havey <dahavey@microsoft.com>; Osman Ertugay <Osman.Ertugay@microsoft.com> Subject: Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt Hi, I think that LEDBAT++ is a great thing to do - I liked your presentations about it, and I like seeing this happening. There are two points that Iād like to make: 1) I remember that, already in your first presentation of LEDBAT++, you showed the problem of throwing away base delay and re-measuring it without giving the queue a chance to drain, leading to a growing measurement every 10 minutes. I may only have said it orally, or not at allā¦ I donāt remember. Anyway, now that thereās a document, I think itās ok for me to mention that I do believe that we were the first to document this problem (and at least one other problem), in: David Ros, Michael Welzl: "Assessing LEDBAT's Delay Impact", IEEE Communications Letters 17(5), pp. 1044-1047, 2013. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6496997?tp=&arnumber=6496997&queryText=assessing%20ledbat%27s%20delay%20impact<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fdocument%2F6496997%3Ftp%3D%26arnumber%3D6496997%26queryText%3Dassessing+ledbat%27s+delay+impact&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994382604207855&sdata=taKazLLhmNj55HnULPtUeLQ7NkFowiAXWSWlhM%2BYYqg%3D&reserved=0> http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~michawe/research/publications/ledbat-impact-letters.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fheim.ifi.uio.no%2F~michawe%2Fresearch%2Fpublications%2Fledbat-impact-letters.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604207855&sdata=UdPUZpKqwpsIdvSnUjqMpUQwu%2BMDv5smTIv1QN1IV4s%3D&reserved=0> ā¦ which may be appropriate to cite. (I donāt want to insist! but at least I wanted to mention it once so you know that this exists.) 2) When the LEDBAT WG started, David Ros and I were assigned to take the lead on the first milestone: a survey of LEDBATāish mechanisms out there. We wrote it, and itās RFC 69297. Then, we made an extended version, as a paper: David Ros, Michael Welzl: "Less-than-Best-Effort Service: A Survey of End-to-End Approaches", IEEE Communications Surveys and Tutorials 15(2), pp.898-908, 2013. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6226797?tp=&arnumber=6226797&contentType=Early%20Access%20Articles&searchField=Search_All&queryText=Less-than-Best-Effort%20Service:%20A%20Survey%20of%20End-to-End%20Approaches<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fdocument%2F6226797%3Ftp%3D%26arnumber%3D6226797%26contentType%3DEarly+Access+Articles%26searchField%3DSearch_All%26queryText%3DLess-than-Best-Effort+Service%3A+A+Survey+of+End-to-End+Approaches&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604217848&sdata=9oCSaJv5OThmU84nb38qxvrP%2BQDBJzeXKx5FvZHK8Is%3D&reserved=0> http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~michawe/research/publications/lbesurvey.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fheim.ifi.uio.no%2F~michawe%2Fresearch%2Fpublications%2Flbesurvey.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604227845&sdata=lCaKGTWAhdp8%2BtrXKU45b3fObS8Npq6KdQMlQgXoF7Y%3D&reserved=0> ā¦ yet I believe this work was largely ignored when LEDBAT was designed. (frankly, I think the idea of this milestone influencing the design was "lip service" - we hadnāt even begun with the survey when the mechanism was basically presented as āthis is what it is, now we can fine-tune it a littleā.) The number of other mechanisms out there, which we surveyed, is quite large, and some of these mechanisms contain good ideas. If you do me the favor of reading the survey to see if you find some inspiration for further design of LEDBAT++, I would feel that this work was a little less in vain :-) Iād also like to note that colleagues have done newer work on LBE after the survey. This one, for example: http://dl.ifip.org/db/conf/networking/networking2017/1570334752.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.ifip.org%2Fdb%2Fconf%2Fnetworking%2Fnetworking2017%2F1570334752.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604227845&sdata=csbQxrL62e6pT7xo9t9s%2F5Rm8ilO4EokAtyBpagBWPs%3D&reserved=0> and this, before it, about CDG (which is available in Linux AFAIK): http://dl.ifip.org/db/conf/networking/networking2017/1570350870.pdf<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.ifip.org%2Fdb%2Fconf%2Fnetworking%2Fnetworking2017%2F1570350870.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604237841&sdata=ELhs0%2FvncFf6r%2B3s0xWdFN7qajqzA2FObiWMu4fiuO4%3D&reserved=0> Cheers, Michael On Jul 22, 2019, at 7:41 PM, Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:pravb=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: Hi, We have submitted the draft below. https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604237841&sdata=caNfRZBCOid0ijDHRVzNE54NswQazp6xvH9ixL1ghpo%3D&reserved=0> Thanks -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 3:35 PM To: Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb@microsoft.com<mailto:pravb@microsoft.com>>; Osman Ertugay <Osman.Ertugay@microsoft.com<mailto:Osman.Ertugay@microsoft.com>>; Daniel Havey <dahavey@microsoft.com<mailto:dahavey@microsoft.com>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Praveen Balasubramanian and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus Revision: 00 Title: LEDBAT++: Congestion Control for Background Traffic Document date: 2019-07-22 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Finternet-drafts%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt&data=02%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7Cb60a23eb4b214f814e6808d70ef4c69b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994316788042519&sdata=87IU%2FKrzc1j0ZVICsyXz15xnnIP9J2ViKHZ%2Fd3cYetQ%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Finternet-drafts%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00.txt&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604247835&sdata=J7CX%2FEWgx5Ocoyk0r1%2BRshQsv2JxO2SjgtcF9C%2BMX4w%3D&reserved=0> Status: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7Cb60a23eb4b214f814e6808d70ef4c69b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994316788042519&sdata=N0L2kfBY7kSlnd41Jq7%2BhWARQDsSUGAxIAPjmb%2BpaAA%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604257833&sdata=uX5QGw9WUTAgzIKEhT%2FOhTnZNeEM3itME1HZjy9A264%3D&reserved=0> Htmlized: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00&data=02%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7Cb60a23eb4b214f814e6808d70ef4c69b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994316788042519&sdata=ykGj6RbmkJGygjk0tA5gecGv06uyklgExb8hGdKuMxU%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus-00&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604257833&sdata=0gJL5R8Bsu6od1aY9Q6m5jfDdzlmC6T5tzl1NE5ZrbI%3D&reserved=0> Htmlized: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus&data=02%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7Cb60a23eb4b214f814e6808d70ef4c69b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994316788042519&sdata=%2BM0S5HhOuCqRqar4Iwiikt69HVe8mXhKm14WN7793vo%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-balasubramanian-iccrg-ledbatplusplus&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C1%7C636994382604267826&sdata=kyrjr9YXtozl%2B0pPcvi5PtN9qJnHUH0%2BA3APkCRskOs%3D&reserved=0> Abstract: This experimental memo describes LEDBAT++, a set of enhancements to the LEDBAT (Low Extra Delay Background Transport) congestion control algorithm for background traffic. The LEDBAT congestion control algorithm has several shortcomings that prevent it from working effectively in practice. LEDBAT++ extends LEDBAT by adding a set of improvements, including reduced congestion window gain, modified slow-start, multiplicative decrease and periodic slowdowns. This set of improvement mitigates the known issues with the LEDBAT algorithm, such as latency drift, latecomer advantage and inter-LEDBAT fairness. LEDBAT++ has been implemented as a TCP congestion control algorithm in the Windows operating system. LEDBAT++ has been deployed in production at scale on a variety of networks and been experimentally verified to achieve the original stated goals of LEDBAT. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org&data=02%7C01%7Cdahavey%40microsoft.com%7Cb4464cb24bc64967799b08d70f041931%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636994382604277822&sdata=6CYtA8WVD5y%2BJcpPG5ant%2FFImryDI4BdcpKtwa6qX3M%3D&reserved=0>. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ iccrg mailing list iccrg@irtf.org<mailto:iccrg@irtf.org> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/iccrg
- Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-baā¦ Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-baā¦ Michael Welzl
- Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-baā¦ Daniel Havey
- Re: [iccrg] New Version Notification for draft-baā¦ Michael Welzl