Re: [Ideas] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-06: (with BLOCK)

Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Thu, 19 October 2017 21:56 UTC

Return-Path: <akatlas@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CFD134303; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMxy3WYjPAkW; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 500CD134316; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id f4so19020951wme.0; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=F7eeVCgz/xOptrVlsnzFftNAt5wQJy0UUhI/s+Ma38o=; b=frVvFTqufRHcnflHw3jw+u2U/tKv6bPE/EEmqPxQd+C8eIXyX/5YvmThIXqw3/8aGC 0vQHRZ+E1sOCzPTeR50Ax/H6kr0ePwvb2145jmCF3CHW9LxXjdJVSAoKM+wuK6LV8k3H jR7L3GymsLUpCa1BiJISODKHtaZjQXiXK9abz9D31caRrVcLEZXbHgYQzYgCxe2jDMiZ /HEJJWmKL1tqGtK48gSKI7TjN6XYqhVoPh/1KMk1iPwsAEzWTxSDMFaXKHtTuL32XUEF oVnulXUB0PTTnWAh4Vh1qnwHBllt/K8lDdneRR7zcNFHVPsCSL1W68rfO5rBtMzv02ch Ymmw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=F7eeVCgz/xOptrVlsnzFftNAt5wQJy0UUhI/s+Ma38o=; b=T2dtJGvzP9UYFM5qf+2026hNC2PHpup4HU73L7dCZMW0RqkNvQDC35KfoiuuBpZJso 4PVkrfdhWZ7/L0BsBwbCZigEzHD2Wa+PhHnEdww8KG3yiSr1P1m+sMDvk/u78HeVvclK k22hwxadUaQSM0c9a7kG4M3OS35iP7y9ahQ3OUIcbXuJ4KXXg1Sa/L4FCEu2gpe7TrIL b0IkxJbooUiPJtPnIXtjy9QGk7wM5m0a7Cw8rs2i0G+7Pw1k25Vs8YKv1I4htgfZ4193 0eZeylQnwWUzSSN59syB6YLbS73Iib6NEfSSQQDFBx1iYs7YZOR4Zbnql2nUveLF6tAL LohQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaVJXOabDpGIOPqfbqOudAlJ39yvn+UGiJ/s6KLre4lAHVxZx/UU hrMgT6mg1/n+vI5BDhw8SK91zr8qG9wzcZHjBpY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+QKlDBUH3ohnEo1AVkI05dZ48GkvGFaqTn4MoIS2pSBB4hhiByhilo+FnsYNmJXvUZ67NYUO6a+ouD1QmiGAWo=
X-Received: by 10.28.178.81 with SMTP id b78mr2736577wmf.157.1508450208676; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:48 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.223.183.202 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:56:48 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <8DCD1593-5B71-4404-A041-E08EE04826BF@gmail.com>
References: <150773363527.24819.15137383317907133805.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <47ABE650-B83D-4400-B27C-C0E5F1C8BA13@gmail.com> <CABcZeBMG+OyYv1Kaeb1BeuUX_Tc3yz8TYObtv7JTVteSuY35Gg@mail.gmail.com> <F0F78529-AB1A-4B5F-B18B-FFAAF72FC5F3@gmail.com> <398a807d-f998-8136-d0ca-24841cff4ac5@htt-consult.com> <8DCD1593-5B71-4404-A041-E08EE04826BF@gmail.com>
From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:56:48 -0400
Message-ID: <CAG4d1reHb3jcKXAYifKJh=h-DvNPBEa_xLCiPNL8_qk+U+qMEw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
Cc: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, ideas-chairs@ietf.org, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, ideas@ietf.org, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11443e36d9805e055bed6e10"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ideas/YLqNmdZat7LCbn3Kbtnf5DGN6vE>
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-06: (with BLOCK)
X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." <ideas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ideas/>
List-Post: <mailto:ideas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 21:56:58 -0000

Dino,

I hear and understand your frustration and am, frankly, delighted to hear
that you are reaching out to the SD-WAN community.

In making a determination of work to be done, considering the broader
industry and associated eco-systems is critical.  Having sufficient
IETF community interest to do the work is also important - but sometimes
engagement happens after or when a WG is chartered.

As for the usual mantra, a standard pushback is that the IETF is as fast as
the volunteers who are supported to do the work....
Innovation is even more persuasive when it is an IETF RFC :-)

Please let me know if I can help.

Regards,
Alia

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>; wrote:

> > Dino and I are connected outside the IETF.  These groups come to us to
> talk, then go back and do their own thing to fill the void.  They will NOT
> come to the IETF, but will take what is offered.
>
> And of course, the typical mantra from them (and I know you all have heard
> this before):
>
> (1) The IETF is too slow.
>
> (2) The IETF cannot decide.
>
> (3) The IETF has too many options. So we are going to pick one and put our
> Intellectual Property on top of it (i.e. SD-WAN IPsec doesn’t interoperate).
>
> (4) We can do protocols better and faster than the IETF.
>
> (5) We want to build our own protocols so we look innovative.
>
> (6) We can get strategic interoperability with our business partners.
>
> Dino
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
>