IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ideas] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-06: (with BLOCK)

Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Thu, 12 October 2017 09:29 UTC

Return-Path: <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17FCE134320; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kHX6wVxOrWim; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 173821332CE; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id i124so11507927wmf.3; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=Fzj45xjJy+NKi6olubxVNBt0oILgtQPo0dEOaYVzrtY=; b=qPgI0wCW4E9R3D/T5sTSmshYSSHOeos8aA7piFZXz104nPUFWs8AsM+PsYXx3TOaP8 yspOcYR7csnv010c2fnmF4uM/ZbbRyrEULdbpVCwDXmEAXnMb/s5qLL7uixa4euLeCa/ CyLef9rWMA9tlcew1+JpyqizQ46c6BPVTuxniLPRafYmRVadGf1MjfNRZBF2+TPXT291 e1N/2l6s1KgsEgv+/SG6eMhK63Zi/OZQO+0jNEAk5xIVuoPtH5JGmNOuxRllLUY+IFt9 RVvWkMsMNnRDZaRAFXjvNoVj3JyGTHUM7jS68E7mo3+RjUfhsR/aq/SYoVjZ+f+QRu47 Ecww==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=Fzj45xjJy+NKi6olubxVNBt0oILgtQPo0dEOaYVzrtY=; b=RjUPSLYFRTjlZtoh495K7xakhRmfWd0rtosB9wopNOYsF1MXYLwt2DBhhrhyROG935 /AaR9+rKobtdzkyJ/dEF4l0PDQaq8OH5vLnEb5TvO4Un56cuIy699vivoRijPE7oTpG7 oLZ9QX7tP7hsXN3q1vfEHBQ2Bs0F+if6LzMbxE3Gzrz5tr1gKNDC6Vo+MSoDR9mDXz+u LRHXUvmNqiZs4xy7Gl1gm9y4T8Jda74VYa7ZBLhylLn+Es3jembtthw/ZkZpe/VqI7kI zwaT0B8spDc4JUVISs1NuDaLxjPTX6e8I8yuQeEwzwJc004Jsgh7JKLCTDzJdh7M+qrb hH2A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaX9TTGY0UvKJ7kzqyidXsj3G+20dqViReOGoiLnSvg4qeBTXH3b c1per3yhUOqlWEnXmttMvZM=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QA28FEklLpFs+nvnR7k4M2l5yCpyCADoMKybRTkbbu9u8LMLFNq/52zNVYcaX+Tlxkc8USeug==
X-Received: by 10.28.151.198 with SMTP id z189mr1224760wmd.133.1507800567577; Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w14sm9814348wmf.13.2017.10.12.02.29.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Oct 2017 02:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: ideas-chairs@ietf.org, ideas@ietf.org, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
References: <150773363527.24819.15137383317907133805.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <47ABE650-B83D-4400-B27C-C0E5F1C8BA13@gmail.com> <CABcZeBMG+OyYv1Kaeb1BeuUX_Tc3yz8TYObtv7JTVteSuY35Gg@mail.gmail.com> <F0F78529-AB1A-4B5F-B18B-FFAAF72FC5F3@gmail.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88f90686-902d-ec98-2ce0-6a4c41794fb0@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:29:25 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <F0F78529-AB1A-4B5F-B18B-FFAAF72FC5F3@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-GB
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ideas/hdp14Wzq2rjXrjSGN_0nIkUPyE4>
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-ideas-00-06: (with BLOCK)
X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." <ideas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ideas/>
List-Post: <mailto:ideas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 09:29:31 -0000

I agree with Dino on this.

We need to find ways to lead and not follow, even if the technology and 
the consequences are not to our taste. The market will do what makes 
economic sense even if it is not "pure". Pursuit of purity in the face 
of economics leads to irrelevance.

This seems a useful body of work to complement our traditional 
approaches to this problem.

- Stewart



On 11/10/2017 20:30, Dino Farinacci wrote:
> I am reaching out to the SD-WAN community. There has been huge investment from the VC community in overlay startups. They are all using proprietary control-planes. There is no interoperability among them. The IETF should not ignore this market and should help shape it.
>
> This is VXLAN-in-the-data-center market all over again making IETF working group nvo3 irrelevant.
>
> Mapping Databases ARE being deployed under the auspices of SDN-controllers. There are high profile user-groups that endorse the activity. It is not going away.
>
> IETF needs to lead and not follow.
>
> Dino
>
>
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> (1) The work is insufficiently motivated. The claims about the need for the
>>> mapping system and the identity management system envisioned here do not appear
>>> to be backed up by those who have developed and deployed ID/LOC separation
>>> protocols. Nor do there seem to be compelling arguments that the framework that
>>> this proposed WG would produce would be the motivator for further interoperable
>>> deployments.
>> This is simply not true. The IETF mailing lists are not finding the reach of interest that exists in the industry
>>
>> Be that as it may, the determination of consensus and justification has to be made primarily on what appears on the mailing lists and at meetings.
>>
>> -Ekr
>>
>>
>> Dino
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ideas mailing list
> Ideas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email