Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity

"Liubingyang (Bryan)" <> Thu, 27 April 2017 01:30 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF8812441E for <>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.221
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0gG0ahZi0djo for <>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 454FF124281 for <>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 18:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from (EHLO ([]) by (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DLV18851; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 01:30:45 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from ( by ( with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 02:30:43 +0100
Received: from ([]) by ([]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:30:35 +0800
From: "Liubingyang (Bryan)" <>
To: Michael Menth <>, Alexander Clemm <>, Dino Farinacci <>
CC: Robert Moskowitz <>, "" <>
Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 01:30:34 +0000
Message-ID: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US
Content-Language: zh-CN
x-originating-ip: []
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected
X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.590149C5.0078, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32
X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: a5271462e6ccc4de9b0f102f77736dfd
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 01:30:50 -0000

Hi Michael, 

What do you mean by authentication? 
Is it used by mapping system to authenticate whether an entity can update properties of an identifier, or used by the corresponding node to authenticate whether the entity indeed owns the identifier? 

Bingyang (Bryan)

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [] 
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:56 AM
To: Alexander Clemm <>om>; Dino Farinacci <>om>; Liubingyang (Bryan) <>
Cc: Robert Moskowitz <>om>;
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity

Hi Alex,

can't a contract be represented by a contract identifier (cidX) to which several networking identifiers (nidn) are mapped?

nid0 -> cidX
nid1 -> cidX
nid2 -> cidX
cidX -> someProperty

This contract identifier may be mapped to some property yielding a kind of hierarchical mapping. What I want to say is, I don't see the gain of an identity concept in this example.

I ask again: what's the value of identities beyond authentication for registration purposes?



Am 26.04.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Alexander Clemm:
> Yes, I think we agree on the notion of identifier.  
> Of course, this is not just about identifier- but identity-enabled networking, so there is still that other aspect needing to be fleshed out. Re: Michael's question, authentication is one of its applications, but I think there are others, for example related to metadata (back to the earlier point of whether identity is a data record) - an example would be the "type" of endpoint which applies regardless whether one or many identifiers are being used.  Related to metadata, you could have policies that are applied based on identity (e.g. an entity with a paid contract), not based on which one of several identifiers an entity happens to use.   
> -- Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dino Farinacci []
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 10:26 AM
> To: Liubingyang (Bryan) <>
> Cc: Michael Menth <>de>; Alexander Clemm 
> <>om>; Robert Moskowitz 
> <>om>;
> Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
>> For example, (one of) the real reason we want identifiers is that we want something that does not change with topology locations to identify mobile communication end point, which functions that cannot be carried by IP addresses. Since (I believe) we all have consensus on this function, we can at least agree that identifier is topology-independent label that identifies a communication end point. 
> Exactly.
> So to extend the definition to be specific. The identifier is used for a host stack transport connection. Its the “thing” (the arguments) you pass to connect(), bind(), sendto(), etc, socket API calls. And what you “get back” from gethostbyname().
> Dino

Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
University of Tuebingen
Faculty of Science
Department of Computer Science
Chair of Communication Networks
Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220