Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture and Call for Interests

David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net> Tue, 28 March 2017 17:59 UTC

Return-Path: <dmm@1-4-5.net>
X-Original-To: idnet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idnet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39CBB12778D for <idnet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=1-4-5-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GeqtiRVSfmFO for <idnet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 971ED1293E8 for <idnet@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id x35so70914111qtc.2 for <idnet@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1-4-5-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y+LiQCl57nucHSJUPoacPsgnGUKj7497vw/NrW7qhF4=; b=Pmna0jlaeTmaBCUy/FyhrA9BFVAVaywsolYxWESpqqNfC8hlER5gRmfMBT1nNF7vJu 3+G3AZAln8KNZvm57TnQzdTR0tMXZEvKwTAgVbt/28zpKgev0/W0O/7hChtpdPGYBe4H mZLsGecXWMkwWG2R7wfMw+AfYwvsaT9RGK1krZvOtmBv9Kbbgl2ocEVn190dc6Wykl10 HA3aoSekRYw5jIIF/48e+Wt8YqEbezQnzBL4pM445INlmQ3EwDfzn5vJH975Mm6vTmOv FDgTlE+deM0pyRimGbPx66P8IBYHWeSoL+xXcu2ec+wyIY5fVddeZhOgczmQw49SNO6N GELw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y+LiQCl57nucHSJUPoacPsgnGUKj7497vw/NrW7qhF4=; b=IvCxF6efYIOlMnEp+kQoQCC8qBqcBMLdGuWyVWPDYLocJF04jLoDJUCXiG/j4ZhnPr bRv3Cvio+1TfLkxwq3PHocz/OCVIn/YlspitQa071Tsa6QqiCbhVti6sVDVNcrFzNP6l cji1igYvQEcn7wQIvirCdKsEi+PyJRuZwnWe+rdEGD1EH9XGren4Z5mgK4r02MlL1Cac 9mgl+3Rl9crHjeffGngIMXCRJO5g6KZv02yYmPkHKGnpdrGig3ceQLR5PjV8c9qByLF6 qQ6Lv6DklwsU1BzqOqMkC3QA/OEZE77wB+pT4A0qCxq+8nqOtIs5RiJodSlMt0S+hZkG NmbA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H0e5UmVnYM56zpg3VlqRyTz0aosTVNjNXn4+pL3F+p2L6RVatKJOvXAFwN5KoefVKxNGEqAkcJDG8U0IA==
X-Received: by 10.237.48.144 with SMTP id 16mr26506965qtf.10.1490723978643; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.12.149.34 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [128.223.156.253]
In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CD15A18@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com>
References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CD15A18@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com>
From: David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:59:38 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHiKxWgT3hKr2VwhbfpmR_siHgiY4PbiKy3QgesG7uqUTnedmw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>
Cc: "idnet@ietf.org" <idnet@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0c995a34a6a6054bce3903
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idnet/6pb-lGXTENr59dAW_90yfK6E2Sw>
Subject: Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture and Call for Interests
X-BeenThere: idnet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "The IDNet \(Intelligence-Defined Network\) " <idnet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idnet>, <mailto:idnet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idnet/>
List-Post: <mailto:idnet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idnet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idnet>, <mailto:idnet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 17:59:42 -0000

Hey Sheng,

I just wanted to revive my key concern on [0] (same one I made at the
NMRL): The hard parts of getting Machine Learning intelligence into
Networking is the Machine Learning part. In addition, successful deployment
of ML requires knowledge of ML combined with domain knowledge. We
definitely have the domain knowledge; the problem is that we don't have the
ML knowledge, and this is one of the big factors holding us back; see e.g.
Andrew's discussion of talent in [1].  Slides such as [0] seem to imply
that *someone else* (in particular, not us)  will handle the ML part of all
of this. I'll just note that in general successful deployments of ML don't
work this way; the domain experts will have to learn ML (and vice versa)
for us to be successful (again, see [1] and many others).

Perhaps a useful exercise would be to write an ID that makes your
assumptions explicit?

Thanks,

Dave


[0]
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-97-nmlrg-intelligence-defined-network-01.pdf
[1]
https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-artificial-intelligence-can-and-cant-do-right-now


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi, all,
>
> Although there are many understanding for Intelligence-Defined Network, we
> are actually using this IDN as a term reference to the SDN-beyond
> architecture that we presented in IETF97, see the below link. A reference
> model is presented in page 3, while potential standardization works is
> presented in page 9.
>
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/slides/slides-
> 97-nmlrg-intelligence-defined-network-01.pdf
>
> Although it might be a little bit too early for AI/ML in network giving
> the recent story of the concluded proposed NMLRG, we still would like to
> call for interests in IDN. Anybody (on site in Chicago this week) are
> interested in this or even wider topics regarding to AI/ML in network,
> please contact me on jiangsheng@huawei.com . Then we may have an informal
> meeting to discuss some common interests and potential future activities
> (not any activities in IETF, but also other STO or experimental trails,
> etc.)  on Thursday morning.
>
> FYI, we have already working on a Work Item, called IDN in the ETSI NGP
> (Next Generation Protocol) ISG, links below.
>
> https://portal.etsi.org/tb.aspx?tbid=844&SubTB=844
> https://portal.etsi.org/webapp/WorkProgram/Report_
> WorkItem.asp?WKI_ID=51011
>
> Meanwhile, please do use this mail list as a forum to discuss any topics
> that may applying AI/ML into network area.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sheng
> _______________________________________________
> IDNET mailing list
> IDNET@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idnet
>