Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture and Call for Interests
David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net> Wed, 29 March 2017 18:18 UTC
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From: David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:18:33 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHiKxWhjjaGCNpcC_GsuHeD7NKfxT2xerTG9QZb5KjDgOJJmzA@mail.gmail.com>
To: 김민석 <mskim16@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Brian Njenga <iambrianmuhia@gmail.com>, Jérôme François <jerome.francois@inria.fr>, Oscar Mauricio Caicedo Rendon <omcaicedo@unicauca.edu.co>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>, "idnet@ietf.org" <idnet@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture and Call for Interests
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Minsuk, Attached are a few quick comments. I'll read more carefully this afternoon. I also have to read the references. Thanks, Dave On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 10:37 AM, 김민석 <mskim16@etri.re.kr> wrote: > Thank you so much =:) > > -Minsuk Kim > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 29 Mar 2017, at 12:12 PM, David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net> wrote: > > > Hey Min-Suk, > > > On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 8:29 AM, 김민석 <mskim16@etri.re.kr> wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> >> Thank you for giving me the great information. >> >> I absolutely agree your opinion that we need real ML data applied by data >> pre-processing so that we have been already trying to make available ML >> data on many ways such as clustering and classification. (using datasets of >> contents and URL) >> >> It's so challenge-able steps before using adaptive ML algorithm to >> network field. >> >> As you mentioned, RL is classical ML algorithm, but it is rapidly going >> develpment and make great results with tensorflow in many fields, >> unfortunately not network. >> >> For our tutorial, I attach some of practical examples with tensorflow as >> below, >> >> https://github.com/tensorflow/models >> >> >> Additionally, I submitted a personal draft to NMLRG even if it was closed >> from last meeting. It's about collaborative distributed multi-agent using >> re-inforcement learning and we trying to apply it to network real >> architecture. >> >> The attachment is on the email. I really appreciate giving me a small >> piece of your feedback and comment if you have a chance. >> > > Thanks. I will try to read/comment later today. > > Thanks again, > > Dave > > >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Min-Suk Kim >> >> Senior Researcher / Ph.D. >> Intelligent IoE Network Research Section, >> ETRI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *보낸 사람 : *"David Meyer" <dmm@1-4-5.net> >> *보낸 날짜 : *2017-03-29 23:25:48 ( +09:00 ) >> *받는 사람 : *김민석 <mskim16@etri.re.kr> >> *참조 : *Brian Njenga <iambrianmuhia@gmail.com>, Jérôme François < >> jerome.francois@inria.fr>, Oscar Mauricio Caicedo Rendon < >> omcaicedo@unicauca.edu.co>, Sheng Jiang <jiangsheng@huawei.com>, >> idnet@ietf.org <idnet@ietf.org> >> *제목 : *Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture and Call >> for Interests >> >> >> Apparently you can't attach a .pptx. The attachment is here (pptx and >> pdf): >> >> >> http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/ml/misc/musings.pptx >> http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/ml/misc/musings.pdf >> >> >> >> >> Thx, >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 7:17 AM, David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net> wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> Hey Min-Suk, >>> >>> >>> Totally agree we need to learn from our environment, and RL is a natural >>> approach. After all, the network is always changing, has adversaries, etc. >>> All of this means. among other things, that we can't make simplifying >>> assumptions like stationary distributions, iid data, .... So RL is one way >>> to attack these problems, and the classic algorithms you mention below are >>> certainly a reasonable approach (I've been working with policy gradients >>> [0], trying to model/adapt the two-player game approach of AlphaGo to >>> networking; the problem there is that we don't have a source of labeled >>> expert data like the KGS Go server (https://www.gokgs.com/) to build >>> the supervised policy network....). >>> >>> >>> You might also want to check out the recent "boot" of evolution >>> strategies as a black-box approach to RL (in particular no gradients). See >>> [1], [2], [3]. There is also a ton of code around if you want to try some >>> of this out (see e.g.,https://github.com/dennyb >>> ritz/reinforcement-learning; this one is in tensorflow). Finally, I've >>> attached a few summary slides with some of my musings on this topic from >>> past talks. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> [BTW, two player minimax games seem to be popping up everywhere: >>> AlphaGo, variational autoencoders [4], GANs [5], and many others; something >>> to thing about for our domain] >>> >>> >>> [0] https://papers.nips.cc/paper/1713-policy-gradient-method >>> s-for-reinforcement-learning-with-function-approximation.pdf >>> [1] https://blog.openai.com/evolution-strategies/ >>> [2] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.03864.pdf >>> [3] http://jmlr.csail.mit.edu/papers/volume15/wierstra14a/wi >>> erstra14a.pdf >>> [4] http://www.1-4-5.net/~dmm/ml/vae.pdf >>> [5] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1406.2661.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 4:04 PM, 김민석 <mskim16@etri.re.kr> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Brian, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As you mentioned by the prior email, anticipating network DDos >>>> attacks is really trendy issue to solve by ML techniques. >>>> >>>> We also make some efforts how to avoid fagile nodes by a trustworthy >>>> communication, that means quantifying trustworthiness of node with >>>> normalization of various requirements such as security function, bandwidth >>>> and etc. >>>> >>>> We are freshly approaching in routing layer with confidence using our >>>> own requirements, TPD(Trust Policy Distribution) and TD(Trust Degree). >>>> These requirements are considered to be solved by Reinforcement Learning >>>> (RL) that is one of the ML algorithms. RL is useful to control some of >>>> network policy about specific actions and states with reinforced and >>>> purnished rewards (+/-), but the problem is too slow to acquire satisified >>>> performance. Other ways to say it, anormaly dectection and regression >>>> analysis might be both efficient approaching methods to solve the issues >>>> Dave mentioned. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> Min-Suk Kim >>>> >>>> Senior Researcher / Ph.D. >>>> Intelligent IoE Network Research Section, >>>> *E*lectronics and *T*elecommunications *R*esearch *I*nstitute (*ET**R* >>>> *I)* >>>> e-mail : mskim16@etri.re.kr <nskim@etri.re.kr> >>>> http://www.etri.re.kr/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > >
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Sheng Jiang
- [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architecture… Sheng Jiang
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Shamik Mishra
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Oscar Mauricio Caicedo Rendon
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian Njenga
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian Njenga
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Jérôme François
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian Njenga
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Jérôme François
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… 김민석
- [Idnet] 答复: Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… dingxiaojian (A)
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Alex Galis
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Chris Hammerschmidt
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… 김민석
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… 김민석
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Sheng Jiang
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… YuLing Chen (yulingch)
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Michele Zorzi
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Manav Bhatia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Sheng Jiang
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Wei Jiang
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Aydin Ulas
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… dingxiaojian (A)
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Laurent Ciavaglia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Laurent Ciavaglia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Jérôme François
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Lori Jakab
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Oscar Mauricio Caicedo Rendon
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… David Meyer
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Juraj Giertl
- Re: [Idnet] Intelligence-Defined Network Architec… Pedro Martinez-Julia