From nobody Wed Apr 21 08:15:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291803A2B9D for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rLB2xa-jjLpG for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0678E3A2B9C for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id 4so7521453lfp.11 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:15:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1JqK1G3m6rDd1K/XgqFTBY/34VpLLSGUhZQwSMGvqx8=; b=XNqW+KF8iNcORP721v7sjyRFnhsZJ8shmTlWmkj30zPjqkf0dpFhcbCRvg2xlj50Gg 0p4kRjAAML+aoC0G/1jlYJCNHD0gLAK2DQbyIroDo/Wg+ZDdPHCcvOo/pvz9nCMorx7Y 4kxnVcuoejQsfF6TAPosnMTWrNcU5TwhlsZBi5rlbwSu7Ha8QcRYzdYK2aw0RZXdwGF9 P4ATwM7PxrF8H8/o0cONeM9jpcL+Rz/UYT0cOoZ00scQ6N3JCxg+4d63CXeMZEeMg+rm MbdvMw3Bz6mc3ysser4ScWxdsNFehePXneWu6XiKhQxESQFtWCgvyGzZMQt6f/WABKK/ d8dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1JqK1G3m6rDd1K/XgqFTBY/34VpLLSGUhZQwSMGvqx8=; b=kT0SjJXmybvdv/vVWBD3lsfEg83aN3zLlbSvMGnn2sqoXx7+W7tjCNPUgiRZJeHWFb vSIneJwoMwk/WlImHp1FJWjVVOhuHZffqBHi5lD54cSzrke3DuvK5ayiRWxA3BcNvr8r zcU2rWOPSnLznnyI4IpKlDKFL7dbYM3XURlYmM7zXwC1nUwurrQrHJ25nl0F7RVjnxjd xjuNUpn9QYG3Y+HkpNuS1sYLwrW8H7AtsfFVvsPiazDjrChcxTSQmhVXv+a9Q0aN6ryN JTBEe3PKp69tNXnVtsrKNdLsvbDHeKs7Is+5ko2myMcqMb2w2ZqhiBhfLXbOz+ECrcny Zcrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531FxznoXE/hTI7sZXL46gyOil8HM8OR9wgnkydUdc2oUF4/vOrd N1yAg3Czy4iO/2QS4qQn0qC/CsHqdRdOGbONqLXS+A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZ28Mf+YWdYpAJL9eKayiDpjobrJWuBjI0j4cp8LaKiAfuwp4qicFdJhJNjyUXZZkjEcdzo1V3jfcIIcK8vRc= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:58c6:: with SMTP id u6mr19408573lfo.419.1619018098011; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:14:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <161895792726.25938.1421770786878475586@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:14:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: John Scudder Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , Hares Susan , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "acmorton@att.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e061205c07d06b1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Idr] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 15:15:06 -0000 --0000000000009e061205c07d06b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 11:04 AM John Scudder wrote: > Hi Warren, > > Thanks for your comment. > > I understand the =E2=80=9Ctoo clever by half=E2=80=9D reaction. As I reca= ll the motivation > for this was that in the future we might want to migrate to using only th= is > encoding. The "encode the short stuff the short way" is the obviously rig= ht > thing to do for the immediate future, because the extension isn't (can't > be) signaled. But in ten years or something, it potentially starts to fee= l > annoying to have to drag the old encoding along even though everyone > already adopted the new one a decade back. So this leaves the door open t= o > us making that transition painlessly and without drama. > Ah, thanks. Makes sense / good enough for me -- I'll clear my DISCUSS position. W > > Regards, > > =E2=80=94John > > > On Apr 20, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Warren Kumari via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > > > > Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-c= riteria.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RwBGRElSG71MB-4xuoZ_K7AsJh9Ov1reQdYmsqJiiijBgU= zS0Q__vFRx6cpoZA$ > > for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i= dr-ext-opt-param/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RwBGRElSG71MB-4xuoZ_K7AsJh9Ov1reQdYmsqJii= ijBgUzS0Q__vFQWHO5WBg$ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This should be a trivial to clear DISCUSS. > > This text terrifies me: > > "It is not considered a fatal error to receive an OPEN message whose > > (non-extended) Optional Parameters Length value is not 255, and whose > first > > Optional Parameter type code is 255 -- in this case the encoding of thi= s > > specification MUST be used for decoding the message. A warning MAY be > logged." > > It smacks of trying to be too clever, and that the correct response > (IMO) when > > trying to set up a session with something obviously broken is to abort > and > > throw an error. > > > > However, I'm sure that there was some discussion, and that the WG > decided that > > this was a good idea; unfortunately I was unable to find anything > discussion on > > this, so all I'm asking for is some reassurance that this was discussed > and > > that this behavior was chosen as a good idea... > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thank you for this document. It is clear, and solves a real problem. > > > > Also, thanks to Al Morton for his OpsDir review - as always, it is much > appreciated. > > > > > > > > --=20 The computing scientist=E2=80=99s main challenge is not to get confused by = the complexities of his own making. -- E. W. Dijkstra --0000000000009e061205c07d06b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 11:04 AM Joh= n Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> wr= ote:
Hi Warren,<= br>
Thanks for your comment.

I understand the =E2=80=9Ctoo clever by half=E2=80=9D reaction. As I recall= the motivation for this was that in the future we might want to migrate to= using only this encoding. The "encode the short stuff the short way&q= uot; is the obviously right thing to do for the immediate future, because t= he extension isn't (can't be) signaled. But in ten years or somethi= ng, it potentially starts to feel annoying to have to drag the old encoding= along even though everyone already adopted the new one a decade back. So t= his leaves the door open to us making that transition painlessly and withou= t drama.

Ah, thanks.

Makes sense / good= enough for me -- I'll clear my DISCUSS position.

W

=C2=A0

Regards,

=E2=80=94John

> On Apr 20, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Warren Kumari via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wro= te:
>
>
> Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement= /discuss-criteria.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RwBGRElSG71MB-4xuoZ_K7AsJh9Ov1reQdYm= sqJiiijBgUzS0Q__vFRx6cpoZA$
> for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr= -ext-opt-param/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!RwBGRElSG71MB-4xuoZ_K7AsJh9Ov1reQdYmsqJiiij= BgUzS0Q__vFQWHO5WBg$
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> This should be a trivial to clear DISCUSS.
> This text terrifies me:
> "It is not considered a fatal error to receive an OPEN message wh= ose
> (non-extended) Optional Parameters Length value is not 255, and whose = first
> Optional Parameter type code is 255 -- in this case the encoding of th= is
> specification MUST be used for decoding the message. A warning MAY be = logged."
> It smacks of trying to be too clever, and that the correct response (I= MO) when
> trying to set up a session with something obviously broken is to abort= and
> throw an error.
>
> However, I'm sure that there was some discussion, and that the WG = decided that
> this was a good idea; unfortunately I was unable to find anything disc= ussion on
> this, so all I'm asking for is some reassurance that this was disc= ussed and
> that this behavior was chosen as a good idea...
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Thank you for this document. It is clear, and solves a real problem. >
> Also, thanks to Al Morton for his OpsDir review - as always, it is muc= h appreciated.
>
>
>



--
The computing scientist=E2=80= =99s main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his ow= n making.
=C2=A0 -- E. W. Dijkstra
--0000000000009e061205c07d06b1--