[Idr] Re: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)

Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> Tue, 27 August 2024 20:12 UTC

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From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2024 16:12:08 -0400
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Subject: [Idr] Re: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
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Note: Responding to highlight what to do for this sort of thing.

FWIW, stuff sent to IDR from non-subscribers is passed along to the idr-chairs for moderation.  We're sometimes behind in approving the moderation requests, especially on the new mailman3 system, but we do eventually handle it.

However, this only can be done when mail reaches the IETF servers.  

Carl Fredrik, as an example, your domain uses the SPF mechanism[1].  If, for some reason, mail is sent in such a way that it violates this domain's SPF policy, the IETF servers may simply drop it.  I'm not asserting that this is happening, but it's been a prior issue.

Once it's confirmed that SPF isn't the issue, our next action would be to ask the IETF mail server maintainers to try to look for the source of the missing messages.

-- Jeff

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework

> On Aug 8, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Oh!  Are you receiving other people’s IDR posts? You are posting to idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org> ?
>  
> Please forward me what you sent to the IDR list. I can see if I spot anything. Otherwise, we can get help from the IDR secretary.
>  
> Sriram
>  
> From: Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>> 
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2024 10:13 AM
> To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov <mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>>
> Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa <mailto:benm@workonline.africa>>
> Subject: Re: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
>  
> Re-subscribed and resent the email. Still doesn’t show up?
>  
> // CF
>  
> From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov <mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>>
> Date: Thursday, August 8, 2024 at 9:43 AM
> To: Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>>
> Cc: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa <mailto:benm@workonline.africa>>
> Subject: RE: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
> 
> Hi Carl,
>  
> Maybe you are not subscribed to IDR list?  You can subscribe here and resend:
>  
> https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/idr@ietf.org/ <https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/idr@ietf.org/>
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Sriram
> From: Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>> 
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2024 9:10 AM
> To: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov <mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>>
> Subject: Re: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
>  
> Hi Siriram,
>  
> Thanks. I sent an email response yesterday, but still don’t see it listed on the IDR mailing list. Did I do something wrong when I replied?
>  
> BR,
> // CF
>  
> From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) <kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov <mailto:kotikalapudi.sriram@nist.gov>>
> Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 9:36 AM
> To: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa <mailto:benm@workonline.africa>>, Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>>
> Cc: Job Snijders <job@fastly.com <mailto:job@fastly.com>>
> Subject: RE: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
> 
> Hi Ben,  Carl:
> 
> Please consider chiming in... just a couple more responses to the WG LC on IDR might be sufficient to put this misery (AS_SET/AS_CONFED_SET) behind us!!
> 
> Ben: Ketan followed up on the discussion you and I had with him at IETF 120.  See his suggested wording here:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/9IQKgUJVYA6FI-iQQJq7bCcP6eE/ <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/9IQKgUJVYA6FI-iQQJq7bCcP6eE/>
>  
> Thanks.
> 
> Sriram   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sriram, Kotikalapudi (Fed) 
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2024 1:31 PM
> To: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa <mailto:benm@workonline.africa>>; draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set.authors@ietf.org <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set.authors@ietf.org>
> Cc: Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>>; Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net <mailto:job@sobornost.net>>
> Subject: AS_SET deprecation draft in WG last call (RE: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set)
> 
> Hi Ben, Job, Carl:
> 
> As you may have noticed, the draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed is in WG LC in IDR:
> https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fidr%2FZW37LYkZ2QoKuVR-jnR2xVEm4NU%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ccarl-fredrik.lagerfeldt%40arelion.com%7Cf78df66a3aeb45774d9708dcb6e5e65f%7C37ce80acc6954482bd8d47ede8fe81ba%7C0%7C0%7C638586345745257817%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xRnGvfB2c48t%2FmqAVjKKI1FHL433b86KlClmjLLnYXA%3D&reserved=0 <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/ZW37LYkZ2QoKuVR-jnR2xVEm4NU/>
> 
> Your participation and comments in the WG LC will be much appreciated.
> 
> Sriram   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Maddison <benm@workonline.africa <mailto:benm@workonline.africa>> 
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 4:16 AM
> To: draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set.authors@ietf.org <mailto:draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set.authors@ietf.org>
> Cc: Carl Fredrik Lagerfeldt <carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com <mailto:carl-fredrik.lagerfeldt@arelion.com>>; Job Snijders <job@sobornost.net <mailto:job@sobornost.net>>
> Subject: Progressing draft-ietf-idr-deprecate-as-set-confed-set
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It was recently pointed out to me that we currently have divergence between vendors in the ROV handling of paths with an AS_SET other than in the rightmost segment of the AS_PATH (thanks CF!).
> 
> Some vendors ignore the presence of such a segment (since it's not in the origin position), whilst others mark any such path as being incapable of matching a VRP. There is no definitive answer to which is correct in any relevant RFC that I can find.
> 
> This is having the unfortunate result of Internet operators arguing about whether certain paths should be propagating into the DFZ :-(
> 
> I don't consider ROV to be the correct context in which to look for a resolution to this debate. The subject I-D would mandate operators to reject paths containing AS_SETs, without reference to side issues such as "is there a ROA or an ASPA".
> 
> I have re-read the draft, and it looks ready to ship. A similar (albeit
> muted) sentiment appears from the list archives.
> 
> Do the authors think there is anything further to add to the document?
> Or is it time for a push towards WGLC and ask Job to get his Rolodex out again?!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ben
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