Re: [Idr] [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 09 July 2021 07:11 UTC

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From: Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 19:11:24 +1200
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To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>, idr@ietf.org, INT Area <int-area@ietf.org>, SARAH@jiscmail.ac.uk, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, rtgwg@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
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The IETF position on LI is not exactly that it's anathema, but that we will
not standardise *any* intercept techniques, legal or otherwise. RFC 2804.

Regards,
    Brian Carpenter
    (via tiny screen & keyboard)

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, 18:33 Stewart Bryant, <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately LI is not our call.
>
> I know the IETF finds it an anathema but it is an unspoken (in IETF)
> reality of the telecommunications industry.
>
> The concept of a huge number of highly portable, highly directional,
> microwave links that are then relayed opaquely to a foreign country is
> going to delight some agencies and give heartburn to their colleagues in
> other parts of the same agency cluster.
>
> I think that we can all postulate how this would (will) be solved in a
> mega-cluster owned by a large ITU region 2 country, or a particularly large
> Asian country but I assume we want to design a global / universal system
> rather than one that will otherwise inevitably be partitioned due to
> geo-political security concerns.
>
> Stewart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 8 Jul 2021, at 23:22, Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hesham,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the answer.
>
> I don’t have too many concerns for this regard, and it may be out the
> scope of the draft.
>
>
>
> Satellite to ground station communication needs license for its spectrum
> in different country and LI is feasible.
>
> But ISL is between satellites. LI may not be a feasible requirement: 1)
> Satellites are in out space that is not belonging to any country, so I
> doubt any country can have such legal requirement for ISL. 2) ISL use laser
> that is not a spectrum controlled by any country or organization. 3) LI for
> ISL is so costly and seems not likely. You need to get FCC or other
> organization’s approve for the new orbit to launch a new satellite and its
> orbit is very close to the existing satellite, this itself is almost
> impossible. I don’t see any other feasible way you can do LI for ISL if
> laser is used for ISL.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Lin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:57 AM
> *To:* Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>om>; Int-area@ietf.org;
> SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; rtgwg@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com>om>;
> idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> I think LI means Lawful Intercept.
>
> It is a security issue. I recall seeing some ETSI documents about it.
>
>
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 10:52 AM Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Stewart,
>
>
>
> What does “LI” stand for?
>
> ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
>
> The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When
> laser is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I
> don’t see the ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser
> (400THz~700THz).
>
>
>
> Lin
>
>
>
> *From:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
> *To:* Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>om>; Lin Han <
> lin.han@futurewei.com>gt;; Int-area@ietf.org; SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK;
> rtgwg@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com>om>; idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will
> prohibit licensing in some countries.
>
>
>
> - Stewart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for low-latency
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show that even if we do not
> have ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency
> than fiber links.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi, Jim
>
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with
> enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to
> solve the satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent
> topology changes, constraints in satellite power, security in open space,
> etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new
> protocols will be developed.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>om>; Int-area@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org;
> rtgwg@ietf.org
> Cc: SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Lin,
>
>         Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used
> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network
> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
> Thanks,
>         Jim Uttaro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org
> Cc: SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite
> network when it is integrated with Internet by current routing
> technologies.
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research
> initiative SARAH.
>
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>om>; Richard Li <richard.li@futurewei.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:           draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          32
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> Abstract:
>    This document presents the detailed analysis about the problems and
>    requirements of satellite constellation used for Internet.  It starts
>    from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation, then it
>    estimates the time constraints for the communications between
>    satellite and ground-station, also between satellites.  How to use
>    satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in details
>    including the satellite relay and satellite networking.  The problems
>    and requirements of using traditional network technology for
>    satellite network integrating with Internet are finally outlined.
>
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