[Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt

Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Wed, 23 October 2024 11:23 UTC

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:23:08 +0200
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To: Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>
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CC: "Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)" <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
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It is not as sweet as it looks :)

List of route types keeps getting extended in multi route-type AFI/SAFIs ..
so you really never know what is supported by the peer unless you know how
to operate your network well.

I think the proposal is a safety fuse to address not so well operated
networks ...

Cheers,
R.

On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM Donatas Abraitis <
donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> wrote:

> What optional route types would be advertised? I mean if an implementation
> supports let's say EVPN, LS, etc. does it
> include all of them or the _list_ should be configurable?
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 10:12 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
> <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> Appreciate your quick review and feedback, and the following is the
>> response.
>>
>>
>>
>> #1 – Will update the text
>>
>> #2 – Will expand the operation section and will consider your suggestion
>>
>> #3 – Will discuss with co-authors and respond accordingly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 22, 2024 at 1:59 PM
>> *To: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>
>> *Cc: *idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually I have a 3rd comment which appeared after I hit the send button.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since you are really doing route type filtering here it seems to me that
>> a much better suited mechanism for this would be an ORF message.
>>
>>
>>
>> In fact it is also much more flexible - you can freely use it during BGP
>> sessions being already established without need for session reset to enable
>> reception of new service/new NLRI types.
>>
>>
>>
>> A simple extension would be like Dynamic Route-Types support with most of
>> the existing cfg/cli/show commands  or logging already in place.
>>
>>
>>
>> Think about it ....
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 6:08 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have two comments on this draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> #1
>>
>>
>>
>> Draft says:
>>
>>
>>
>> > This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types
>>
>> > per AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *negotiate* the route types
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately BGP capabilities do not negotiate anything in BGP. Please
>> search on number of discussions on this point on the list in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I recommend you change this into:
>>
>>
>>
>> This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types per
>> AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *signal* the route types
>>
>>
>>
>> #2
>>
>>
>>
>> Operational consideration is missing ...
>>
>>
>>
>> The scenario where this draft could play a role is that operator enables
>> mix of services between two nodes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now this mix of services is not symmetrical.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today session does not come up and it is clear there is configuration
>> mistake which needs to be corrected.
>>
>>
>>
>> With this draft session will happily come up and only "supported"
>> services by a peer as expressed in supported route types for a given
>> AFI/SAFI peer will be sent.
>>
>>
>>
>> How is this helping operator to consistently run the services ? If he
>> would not count on exchanging those with the peer it would not be
>> configured in the first place.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bigger question how would a router signal that only partial of configured
>> services operate within say EVPN AF ?
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems that it would lead to really weak configuration habits in a
>> style - enable all and see what get's exchanged.
>>
>>
>>
>> In other words having ability to know what services/route types my peers
>> support for a given AFI/SAFI seems cool. But only informationally.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using this information for automated service propagation
>> suppression/filtering is IMHO much less cool .. if at all a good thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>> PS. And it may be interesting to see a section on how this may help to
>> enable new route types dynamically on the existing running nodes and within
>> existing established BGP sessions with many AFI/SAFIs. Of course assumption
>> is that running operating systems on those nodes does support it already -
>> but new services where not enable at boot time (BGP sessions establishment
>> time).
>>
>>
>>
>> Where am I going with this PS note ...
>>
>>
>>
>> As we are really touching a new territory of signalling embedded route
>> types (different NLRI formats) within single AFI/SAFI(s) perhaps this is
>> good time to rethink it and write up Dynamic Route-Types proposal which
>> could be signalled between nodes not really using BGP Capabilities
>> semantics.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 12:58 AM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
>> <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> IDR WG,
>>
>> We have posted a new draft outlining route type capability to address BGP
>> session reset whenever new route type is added to address families like
>> EVPN.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
>>
>> Request the WG to review and provide feedback/comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> *Date: *Monday, October 21, 2024 at 5:51 PM
>> *To: *Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>, Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy
>> (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>, Lukas Krattiger (lkrattig) <
>> lkrattig@cisco.com>, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>
>> *Subject: *New Version Notification for
>> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>>
>> A new version of Internet-Draft
>> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt has been successfully
>> submitted by Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:     draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
>> Revision: 00
>> Title:    BGP Route Type Capability
>> Date:     2024-10-21
>> Group:    Individual Submission
>> Pages:    5
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability/
>> HTMLized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
>>
>>
>> Abstract:
>>
>>    BGP supports different route types, which defines the encoding of
>>    Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) for a some of the
>>    Address Family Identifier (AFI)/Subsequent Address Family Identifier
>>    (SAFI) like Ethernet VPN (EVPN), Multicast VPN(MVPN) and so on.  BGP
>>    speaker will reset the BGP session if a given route type is not
>>    supported.  This document defines an Optional Capabilities to
>>    exchange the route types supported for a given AFI/SAFI such that
>>    session are not reset.
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Donatas
>