Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-snijders-idr-deprecate-30-31-129
Peter Hessler <phessler@theapt.org> Tue, 01 November 2016 14:26 UTC
Return-Path: <phessler@theapt.org>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02E61296FB for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.398
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ldtQCxEsDmUO for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gir.theapt.org (gir.theapt.org [IPv6:2001:470:1f0b:8b2::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13AB5129722 for <idr@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gir.theapt.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/0 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: phessler) by gir.theapt.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 685BB78985; Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:25:59 +0100 (CET)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 15:25:51 +0100
From: Peter Hessler <phessler@theapt.org>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Message-ID: <20161101142537.GA24817@gir.theapt.org>
References: <169A4C1A-302E-4FE0-841A-ADA63E812E1F@juniper.net> <20161101133240.GK1581@hanna.meerval.net> <CA+b+ERnh8MMDgCoviLDRvOxbOky=8pBtHC8Z-WCQr6xFF_ZzGQ@mail.gmail.com> <20161101141229.GK1589@hanna.meerval.net> <CA+b+ERmfW0vVXgqrxqNajZhJS3aDXD6kG7xzMFjsuk4bBNLvnQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CA+b+ERmfW0vVXgqrxqNajZhJS3aDXD6kG7xzMFjsuk4bBNLvnQ@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/PdbnsOXHXC5ZcOhUim4BIOq10_E>
Cc: IETF IDR Working Group <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-snijders-idr-deprecate-30-31-129
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:26:03 -0000
On 2016 Nov 01 (Tue) at 15:17:30 +0100 (+0100), Robert Raszuk wrote: :> An implementor should not be rewarded with the possibility :> of laziness after they squat on a codepoint. : :+ : :> I argue that we cannot tolerate: : :Ahh got it. : :So the point of the document is *punishment* for early attempts to :implement anything not to technically address the problem at hand. Thx for :clarification ... : :Cheers, :R. : Early development in support of an ID is desirable, and in this WG pretty much required. For that, a lab image and (in the open source case) patches floating around is good. Pushing these to innocent customers is not. Squatting on random (e.g. Huawei with code 30) codepoints *should* be punished, imho. Regardless if we consider it to be punishment or not-punishment, it should be documented that these code points are tainted, and cannot be considered pure and clean for future assignments. I don't care either way if 129 is used for a future Early Assignment of Wide Communities. But I do care if 31 is assigned to someone that has to fight the existing ecosystem. :On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote: : :> On Tue, Nov 01, 2016 at 03:02:37PM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: :> > Reason being that if any of the applications they have been squatted :> > on behalf of want to use them - it would be pretty easy to allocate :> > them. :> > :> > The other alternative would be to allocate them to those applications :> > now (for which the drafts exist) as IANA early allocations. If you :> > depreciate them now and we know that as example Contrail Multicast is :> > important either your draft will need to quickly be moved to historic :> > or yet another types will need to be allocated again. :> :> That is not how the process works. An implementor should not be rewarded :> with the possibility of laziness after they squat on a codepoint. :> "Laziness" being that they don't have to renumber, and that they didnt :> have to go through the normal process to obtain the codepoint. :> :> I argue that we cannot tolerate: "I'll just take this one, IANA will :> give it to me anyway later on if the product becomes popular" :> :> Also, the 'deprecate' draft (if published) would be "updated", not moved :> to historic. Only when all six proposed squatted points are returned to :> the "unassigned" pool the document can be declared historic. :> :> > In any of the above Large Communities will get virgin BGP attribute :> > type which I believe is the main point here. :> :> No, the main point is to prevent another deployment issue like Large BGP :> Communities suffered. Large BGP Communities has been resolved now (after :> considerable effort I might add). :> :> This document protects innocent bystanders from being assigned :> undeployable tainted codepoints. :> :> Kind regards, :> :> Job :> -- Command, n.: Statement presented by a human and accepted by a computer in such a manner as to make the human feel as if he is in control.
- [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-snijd… John G.Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Brian Dickson
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Julian Seifert
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Hankins, Greg (Nokia - US)
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Zhuangshunwan
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Peter Hessler
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… David Freedman
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Peter Hessler
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Early allocations and other ways to avoid s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… heasley
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] Early allocations and other ways to avo… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Early allocations and other ways to avo… Keyur Patel
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… marco
- Re: [Idr] Early allocations and other ways to avo… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Idr] Early allocations and other ways to avo… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Dickinson, Ian
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… heasley
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Working group adoption call for draft-s… John G. Scudder