Re: [Idr] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn

Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> Fri, 31 July 2020 12:02 UTC

Return-Path: <shares@ndzh.com>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F233A133D; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 05:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.216
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.216 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.267, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QE2ozsfhexLr; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 05:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBE543A132E; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 05:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.107.100.94;
From: "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>
To: "'Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)'" <sajassi@cisco.com>, <bess@ietf.org>, <idr@ietf.org>
References: <007f01d664f3$e2b14ff0$a813efd0$@ndzh.com> <8A0EAEEB-52CA-48CB-BA5E-C64DFED1EEEF@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <8A0EAEEB-52CA-48CB-BA5E-C64DFED1EEEF@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 08:01:53 -0400
Message-ID: <00ff01d66732$61fc9fe0$25f5dfa0$@ndzh.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0100_01D66710.DAED49D0"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQH4NngJmhNd7Sc4WPNnARMeffEc5wHjB4nSqM7Y6TA=
Content-Language: en-us
X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 200730-4, 07/30/2020), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/TA0CndMon3XDa3WHsKiSedDa82s>
Subject: Re: [Idr] IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 12:02:13 -0000

Ali:

 

It is wise to start with the RFC6514 and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation draft.   

 

[WG chair hat on] 

The tunnel-encapsulation draft has passed general WG LC – so it is inappropriate to call for the request to remove these sections.  The WG LC that is currently running is whether to remove the “AS” field from the tunnel endpoint field, and replace it with a reserved field. 

 

The implementation page is on: 

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/idr/wiki/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps%20implementations

 

If you wish to provide information on the cisco implementation, you are welcome to add information on the page. 

I can call for an update to the page from vendors.

 

[WG chair hat off[

[Document shepherd hat on] 

 

The issue is during the edits the text from RFC6514 from Eric Rosen was unclear.  The text was: 





   It has been suggested that it may sometimes be useful to attach a

   Tunnel Encapsulation attribute to a BGP UPDATE message that is also

   carrying a PMSI (Provider Multicast Service Interface) Tunnel

   attribute [ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6514> RFC6514].  If the PMSI Tunnel attribute specifies an IP

   tunnel, the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute could be used to provide

   additional information about the IP tunnel.  The usage of the Tunnel

   Encapsulation attribute in combination with the PMSI Tunnel attribute

   is outside the scope of this document.

 

Since the text itself was unclear what additional information could be provided, the authors removed it from the draft. 

 

As we had not received any feedback about active RFC6514 interactions on the list. 

 

[document shepherd off]

 

If you have an implementation of the interaction between the RF6514 and tunnel encapsulation, it would be valuable to provide:

 

a)  either a draft specifying the interaction you wish to IDR WG, or  

b)  comments that could replace the original the original text. 

 

Since the IDR draft has gone through multiple WG LC and a very complete review from Alvaro – so a quick response would be appreciated.   IMHO a draft on the interaction between RFC6514 and the tunnel-encapsulation draft – would be the best thing at this point.  Let me know if you are interested in working on such a draft. 

 

Sue 

 

 

From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 1:54 AM
To: Susan Hares; bess@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
Cc: 'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'
Subject: Re: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn 

 

<added idr@ietf.org>

 

Sue,

 

Before getting to the discussions of the three IPsec proposals, there are some elements of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt that I can see might have caused some confusions and I’d like to get those sorted out first. 

 

The tunnel-encap draft specifies sub-tlv for VxLAN, VxLAN GDP, and NVGRE in sections 3.2.1, 3.2.2, and 3.2.3. I am not aware of any vendor that has implemented these sub-tlvs because the info in these sub-tlv already exist in EVPN routes (e.g., MAC addresses, Ethernet Tags, etc.) which they have implemented it. Therefore, all the vendors that I am aware of use Extended Community  defined in section 4.1  along with EVPN routes to signal VxLAN and GENEVE tunnel types. Furthermore, I am not aware of anyone using NVGRE encap! So, as the first step, we should remove these three sections from the draft if there is no objection. 

 

Cheers,

Ali

 

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 8:30 AM
To: Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com>om>, "bess@ietf.org" <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: "'Hu, Jun (Nokia - US/Mountain View)'" <jun.hu@nokia.com>
Subject: IPSec Tunnels and draft-sajassi-bess-secure-evpn 

 

Ali and bess WG: 

 

IDR has 3 proposals for IPsec tunnels that impact draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-17.txt.  As an IDR co-chair/shepherd,  I have been discussing these three drafts (Ali and two other authors sets) to try to find out if we can have one general solutions.   

 

The discussion has been very fruitful to point up BGP issues of interoperability, security, privacy, manageability, and scaling.  For example, there is a lack of a clear specification between RFC6514 (PMSI tunnel attribute) and the tunnel-encaps draft that specifies how these drafts interoperate.  I suspect the bess and idr chairs will need to discuss if tunnel-encaps has to address this point. 

 

I wrote up my ideas in draft-hares-idr-bgp-ipsec-analysis-00.txt so the authors could tell me what I misunderstood.   You’ll find this draft stops half way.  I have the rest of the draft written, but I wanted feedback from all the author teams before sending it out. 

 

After hearing some of the details from the authors, I would like to sponsor an IDR interim so we could discuss these issues at length.   If you think this is a good idea, please let me know. 

 

One other thing… unfortunately, I scheduled a set of meetings for EDT time after IETF meetings this week.   Your next response will occur from 11-16 UTC on Wednesday. 

 

Cheerily, Sue