Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> Mon, 11 January 2021 22:58 UTC
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:58:08 -0800
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Hares Susan <shares@ndzh.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-20: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi John, Sorry for the delayed reply; I managed to get in a nice relaxing holiday vacation, but with formal telechats on either side of it I neglected my inbox... Thank you for digging into and writing up the subtleties involved here. I agree with your overall assessment and plan, and will go clear my Discuss shortly. I might consider having the §3.7 text read no implication that the prefix-SID for the advertised prefix is the same as seen by the BGP speaker that originated the sub-TLV and the BGP speaker that received it" to talk even less about "Segment Routing domains" in that location, but I am not 100% confident that would be accurate, so please use your judgment. Thanks again, Ben On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 03:43:36PM +0000, John Scudder wrote: > Hi Ben, > In this reply I'll just address your open Discuss: > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:08 AM, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I support Erik's discuss. > > I see that Roman has already suggested adding normative language > regarding the limitation to a single administrative domain (in > addition > to the "MUST filter by default for EBGP sessions"), which I agree > with. > However, I think there is an additional consideration regarding the > limitation of use to a single administrative domain, wherein the > domain > of use for the tunnel encapsulation attribute may diverge from the > domain of use of segment routing, that seems to place this document > in > conflict with the requirements of RFC 8402. In particular, > RFC 8402 says, for SR-MPLS and SRv6, that boundary routers "MUST > filter > any external traffic", and additionally for SRv6 that "explicit > routing > information MUST NOT be leaked through the boundaries of the > administrered domain". In S:3.7 of this document, though, we find > that > for the Prefix-SID sub-TLV, "the receiving BGP speaker need not even > be > in the same Segment Routing Domain as the tunnel's egress endpoint, > and > there is no implication that the prefix-SID for the advertised > prefix is > the same in the Segment Routing domains of the BGP speaker that > originated the sub-TLV and the BGP speaker that received it", which > seems to suggest violation of the RFC 8402 requirement. I think we > need > to have greater clarity on what relationship is actually intended > between the SR domain and the tunnel encapsulation usage domain, and > if > they are to diverge, we need to both somehow rectify this behavior > with > RFC 8402 and to very clearly document how the 8402-mandated > filtering at > the SR domain boundary is supposed to happen when the boundary > includes > tunneled traffic. > > We'll respond to this later, I need to discuss it with my coauthors > and didn't want to hold up the rest of the response any longer than I > have. > > Sounds good. I am not surprised that this one is going to require more > discussion; it seems like a tricky task to figure out the right thing to > do. > > We did a review of RFC 8402's definition of an "SR domain". Here's 8402, > from the Terminology section, emphasis added: > > Segment Routing domain (SR domain): the set of nodes participating in > the source-based routing model. These nodes may be connected to the > same physical infrastructure (e.g., a Service Provider's network). > They may as well be remotely connected to each other (e.g., an > enterprise VPN or an overlay). If multiple protocol instances are > deployed, the SR domain most commonly includes all of the protocol > instances in a network. However, some deployments may wish to > subdivide the network into multiple SR domains, each of which > includes one or more protocol instances. It is expected that all > nodes in an SR domain are managed by the same administrative entity. > > Other parts of 8402 imply other properties of an SR domain. One is that > all the participating routers share a Prefix-SID namespace (this is my > interpretation, not the wording of 8402), another is the text in Section > 8.1 you quote above, about filtering external traffic. > The text that bothered you in tunnel-encaps ("need not even be in the same > Segment Routing Domain") was directed only toward the namespace aspect: > the two ends of the tunnel may be using different prefix-SID namespaces. > But as we see above, the namespace isn't a defining attribute of the SR > domain. So, I think the best way forward is to strike the offending text > from tunnel-encaps. The paragraph stands just as well (arguably better) > without it: > > The Prefix-SID sub-TLV has slightly different semantics than the > Prefix-SID attribute. When the Prefix-SID attribute is attached to a > given route, the BGP speaker that originally attached the attribute > is expected to be in the same Segment Routing domain as the BGP > speakers who receive the route with the attached attribute. The > Label-Index tells the receiving BGP speakers what the prefix-SID is > for the advertised prefix in that Segment Routing domain. When the > > Prefix-SID sub-TLV is used, the receiving BGP speaker need not even > > be in the same Segment Routing Domain as the tunnel's egress > endpoint, and there is no implication that the prefix-SID for the > advertised prefix is the same in the Segment Routing domains of the > BGP speaker that originated the sub-TLV and the BGP speaker that > received it. > > We'd also add something like the following to the Security Considerations > section: > > RFC 8402 specifies that "SR domain boundary routers MUST filter any > external traffic" ([RFC 8402] Section 8.1). For these purposes, > traffic introduced into a SR domain using the Prefix-SID sub-TLV lies > within the SR domain, even though the prefix-SIDs used by the routers > at the two ends of the tunnel may be different, as discussed in > Section 3.7. This implies that the duty to filter external traffic > extends to all routers participating in such tunnels. > > What do you think? > Thanks, > -John
- [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-idr-… Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… John Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… John Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Idr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk