Re: [Idr] [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> Fri, 09 July 2021 00:29 UTC

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To: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Int-area@ietf.org" <Int-area@ietf.org>, "SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK" <SARAH@jiscmail.ac.uk>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
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From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
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Hi Lin,

I agree that there are many LI issues that need to be addressed. I am 
not even sure if LI laws are fully understood by each country. Moreover, 
some counties may have their  own rules. For example, it is reported 
that "Intelsat Epic NG satellites cover 99% of the globe to provide 
truly ubiquitous coverage, which enables mobile operators to expand 
their networks anywhere in the world. Intelsat’s next generation 
satellites also feature a flexible architecture that can be configured 
to deliver backhaul transmission in any country. That is, any traffic 
carried over Intelsat satellite backhaul from a cell site to the core is 
landed in the same country and doesn’t leave the country’s borders. This 
capability allows mobile operators to meet regulatory requirements for 
lawful intercept, content filtering, as well as billing."

Please refer to the attached ETSI  document, in particular annex F which 
as you can see it is informative, because I think the requirements in 
this Annex are still under discussion.

You can also refer to this 2018 article on How Satellite companies can 
prepare for LI 
(https://www.satellitetoday.com/telecom/2018/03/20/facing-the-challenging-lawful-intercept-landscape/). 
I still need to see the state of standards and regulatory developments 
in 2021. If anyone has more info, please let us know.

Thanks

Hesham


On 7/8/2021 3:22 PM, Lin Han wrote:
>
> Hesham,
>
> Thanks for the answer.
>
> I don’t have too many concerns for this regard, and it may be out the 
> scope of the draft.
>
> Satellite to ground station communication needs license for its 
> spectrum in different country and LI is feasible.
>
> But ISL is between satellites. LI may not be a feasible requirement: 
> 1) Satellites are in out space that is not belonging to any country, 
> so I doubt any country can have such legal requirement for ISL. 2) ISL 
> use laser that is not a spectrum controlled by any country or 
> organization. 3) LI for ISL is so costly and seems not likely. You 
> need to get FCC or other organization’s approve for the new orbit to 
> launch a new satellite and its orbit is very close to the existing 
> satellite, this itself is almost impossible. I don’t see any other 
> feasible way you can do LI for ISL if laser is used for ISL.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
> *From:* Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:57 AM
> *To:* Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>om>; Int-area@ietf.org; 
> SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK; rtgwg@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com>om>; 
> idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> I think LI means Lawful Intercept.
>
> It is a security issue. I recall seeing some ETSI documents about it.
>
> Hesham
>
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 10:52 AM Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com 
> <mailto:lin.han@futurewei.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi, Stewart,
>
>     What does “LI” stand for?
>
>     ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
>
>     The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave.
>     When laser is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license
>     issue, I don’t see the ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the
>     frequency of laser (400THz~700THz).
>
>     Lin
>
>     *From:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>     <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
>     *To:* Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com
>     <mailto:helbakoury@gmail.com>>
>     *Cc:* Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com
>     <mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com>>; Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com
>     <mailto:lin.han@futurewei.com>>; Int-area@ietf.org
>     <mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>     <mailto:SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>; rtgwg@ietf.org
>     <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>; UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com
>     <mailto:ju1738@att.com>>; idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
>     draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>     The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do
>     LI will prohibit licensing in some countries.
>
>     - Stewart
>
>         On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury
>         <helbakoury@gmail.com <mailto:helbakoury@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for
>         low-latency wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show
>         that even if we do not have ISL we can use ground terminals to
>         route traffic with better latency than fiber links.
>
>         Thanks
>
>         Hesham
>
>         On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com
>         <mailto:lin.han@futurewei.com>> wrote:
>
>             Hi, Jim
>
>             I don't have clear answer.
>             What I can guess now is that most of current technologies
>             (with enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies
>             might be needed to solve the satellite specific issues,
>             such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes,
>             constraints in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
>             It is up to the community to decide what new technologies
>             and what new protocols will be developed.
>
>             Regards
>
>             Lin
>
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com <mailto:ju1738@att.com>>
>             Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
>             To: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com
>             <mailto:lin.han@futurewei.com>>; Int-area@ietf.org
>             <mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org
>             <mailto:idr@ietf.org>; rtgwg@ietf.org <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
>             Cc: SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
>             Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
>             draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>             Lin,
>
>                     Are you suggesting that the current set of
>             protocols can be used with or without enhancements or is
>             the uniqueness of the satellite network require new
>             protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
>             Thanks,
>                     Jim Uttaro
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org
>             <mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lin Han
>             Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
>             To: Int-area@ietf.org <mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>;
>             idr@ietf.org <mailto:idr@ietf.org>; rtgwg@ietf.org
>             <mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
>             Cc: SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:SARAH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
>             Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
>             draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>             Hi,
>
>             This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the
>             satellite network when it is integrated with Internet by
>             current routing technologies.
>             It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP.
>             The further solution proposals may also come from
>             different groups including research initiative SARAH.
>
>             Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
>             Thanks
>
>             Lin
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
>             <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>             <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
>             Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
>             To: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com
>             <mailto:lin.han@futurewei.com>>; Richard Li
>             <richard.li@futurewei.com <mailto:richard.li@futurewei.com>>
>             Subject: New Version Notification for
>             draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>             A new version of I-D,
>             draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>             has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to
>             the IETF repository.
>
>             Name:  draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
>             Revision:       00
>             Title:          Problems and Requirements of Satellite
>             Constellation for Internet
>             Document date:  2021-07-03
>             Group:          Individual Submission
>             Pages:          32
>             URL:
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>
>             Abstract:
>                This document presents the detailed analysis about the
>             problems and
>                requirements of satellite constellation used for
>             Internet.  It starts
>                from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation,
>             then it
>                estimates the time constraints for the communications
>             between
>                satellite and ground-station, also between satellites. 
>             How to use
>                satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in
>             details
>                including the satellite relay and satellite
>             networking.  The problems
>                and requirements of using traditional network
>             technology for
>                satellite network integrating with Internet are finally
>             outlined.
>
>
>
>
>             The IETF Secretariat
>
>
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