Re: [Idr] IETF LC for IDR-ish document <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard

Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> Thu, 20 April 2017 21:49 UTC

Return-Path: <erosen@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37AE128A32 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.802
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rKaTECY3isL9 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0096.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.37.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F9AF12EA74 for <idr@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=2x2M5PRH36wnZIjm1SyNnvYIty1uUE9CrWpCd6Zz/mo=; b=U7sgnjA0yyMqQF5mngettU1398UJzWmlruNbROF4MobbOAEEnVu/VrFQucN9VIaLNGolmDMB0Ysq+OHxB39Zr3HuPCjegUlT3EcGI/2kkx+BHK0ty8VpdqeCsOw+ZYvu6e0QEQR6+6HiqwtjuGxyESdy81YMtoQ+R8M7UHR7xHs=
Authentication-Results: juniper.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;juniper.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net;
Received: from [172.29.35.36] (66.129.241.12) by CY1PR05MB2188.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.166.192.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1047.6; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:49:37 +0000
To: Job Snijders <job@instituut.net>, Enke Chen <enkechen@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
References: <D4E812E8-AA7B-4EA2-A0AC-034AA8922306@juniper.net> <abe393d3-d1e4-7841-4620-38dab751765b@cisco.com> <68B29403-9AD9-4F06-9FE4-3F077E793D9F@puck.nether.net> <275cf744-1f64-bcbc-dabe-a47479921230@cisco.com> <20170420154142.lacvtplusepy3qcf@hanna.meerval.net> <b57162ec-f806-6e86-7713-58608f72c468@cisco.com> <32C0B4EE-6241-49F9-97F2-7107AC68678D@juniper.net> <e513849d-f895-0499-7bf4-5ecb24cadab7@cisco.com> <CA+b+ER=ee6Q59mbctO06P8x2QsTz_me9mL9YcB25O2Ey4+kpdA@mail.gmail.com> <CACWOCC-Gusv1Jk1OXfVAZuWbMJxrzq=dEAdWGVSAPg0AjujhXA@mail.gmail.com>
CC: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Hares Susan <shares@ndzh.com>
From: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
Message-ID: <a9939e21-3e2f-2e29-857f-58c5e8a7c541@juniper.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:49:34 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CACWOCC-Gusv1Jk1OXfVAZuWbMJxrzq=dEAdWGVSAPg0AjujhXA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Originating-IP: [66.129.241.12]
X-ClientProxiedBy: BN6PR1301CA0005.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (10.174.84.146) To CY1PR05MB2188.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.166.192.12)
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 99d4d85b-718b-4372-1b31-08d4883724d7
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant
X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081); SRVR:CY1PR05MB2188;
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB2188; 3:eP2i17HMUC+gqxw2gBa76GS1hU0x+3HYTb2aGYgOLb+sUK7eoBDu7Mn8oSQxKhozPKQE4d1G7zwidyEedVGnr00YQ3ZXOb9xkq58IMOt1s25RybT1U20n7aOYko06aJpnJrLRhhBFEYbd/Xtch0X8pv2mRVZMRLjQYj2ZMGoZY9A5jZgo1MOZXHMqB3971Z0lQF+aWjgp3pnNhTgHce/jFdM8b1BqIs0XbtXyHrkX5QamI67fPzHYk4dPttEvfE30ZYTh/u36ZTlmgeiRAMdvO+1GeyAYTQGXX0QMPZ8o19+/b0vYC1lH9brKa7MlZH6t5rwMqC2ysfafQ1/zMhpHX9fxN3kk4revaYv9xA5Jsw=; 25:7Uk6ln2iNMJ2zpm9CZIz7TQV4jce7XAumsH3va4ciekXd+3W6PwmGP2D7pA6mEb5y5WLrv0dYwPGkopIaV8cJAZtcY/GL25VgBJspV3vLF41Jcu2i/07gRz+K8yQZZyozbTzvezJ9H4lUbWg2MCpWOE4w3KOvwY/WcNmgVzygjX/HWgJEf575x9uJWa+By4FDA6xp0nuFNpp+nEChRi49Gq8iM+z/BXuZjKxHoK/sAWDOgTuVTlf66NHUVrMwONAms0mhWb2dmd2oDT/h9oqEEJVg4MYO4H0g9l1jvMO2nM/jQeEAnQpxoduR5ZgUoFueO8e7ARqZiPOm/p5ExT7syhzY85ESUNCsmB+0g1njFVfUsprr8qVuLgXC+gHUV3vcJlDC6h2VD8PII5PXMe8BwIeGSsnwRyV5/Wx7wFeFpYY9E99oPX79P/6DDNKrh39pXGFEWBufsIW1S24XL7SP0u9b3XMiVAJfBkRVDP+b6A=
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB2188; 31:s+FjiDVap3vhlI6KIaEjrtGUYeNJgC2Ljk7gyHpwuxGy9LA2DnZvoKNuTAlmoT1rQZUdVYTrbyylONV7RCAwVXmboUsvPG/jkYbb9TsP42A6bQo+9FMPtEa7VsQ2ovvC1DIhCyeEy4UhvVJ203gv8ctkqIoTN3wEqgk3NnfA0X33W0bYyPregSbooZIBn3lD2/rMBxTuDG2pFp173wx8V4VzC0kLyizjy0DSnCAIdIE=; 20:xvzmU25v3wrbaCl+d2EaSPNcsWbrGJO68DyK8MjByvog3zlTUrZBBe2t3S1UeGqQ4A0hC6hh1fx91VRxBiOvrI2EAVky/S10d7vIY2t8+FifN5X6EDRoOZXcXKVSugegB67KWUFRatgv1FKmvrUFO3rz7U+7TX3IOpbyyhEU6XnXFzDMREfefptb/Dha8BWmw5gKc0m3GTkC6QhX0Nve5zx+KOhCGIRoISY6JMdq6MAn+GxoartmNBmEinzT9ue3Uho821uu28G2nh2WC/jrWyw2PNiTgrJB12ab/eTk1fw7r/Bo+ReXlbLo4W7oWG4hRSOLVFETa+6kpg3n63ds/0Dw871I1hbdvAF5eSWur2Rm92DCzmbMsnqSLRujqnwamYwNdPytekwUd/2+hOZsgDPDM8DktMKm1SoIvnq8NLC03jbf975Dg8/DfIUxV+vCcx4MFsNbxqHeCfwzW3LKw4AOuLm8msMQyGMYfimVpiBSNQF2uAhR4a8XaQMLYQpAfR9lxZ0Ui9YzxTOqXnjX6KWUxn5N/Og9OhbVp0sv/TT4asFoQs/1Lg/t+x0gjputqn2pqLyMyjaRTq5BHH+ii9BP5bML/BhOH+cz2lS0Q3E=
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <CY1PR05MB2188488620E5E4A744551819D41B0@CY1PR05MB2188.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:;
X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123562025)(201703131423075)(201703011903075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(20161123564025)(20161123560025)(20161123555025)(6072148); SRVR:CY1PR05MB2188; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR05MB2188;
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB2188; 4: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
X-Forefront-PRVS: 02830F0362
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(4630300001)(6009001)(6049001)(39840400002)(39860400002)(39850400002)(39400400002)(39410400002)(39450400003)(377454003)(24454002)(86362001)(5660300001)(38730400002)(25786009)(31696002)(42186005)(31686004)(53936002)(53546009)(50986999)(54356999)(76176999)(93886004)(7736002)(4001350100001)(305945005)(50466002)(33646002)(65806001)(54906002)(23746002)(65956001)(2950100002)(47776003)(66066001)(6246003)(189998001)(4326008)(81166006)(230700001)(36756003)(6666003)(6116002)(3846002)(83506001)(6486002)(2906002)(77096006)(90366009)(8676002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR05MB2188; H:[172.29.35.36]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en;
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: =?Windows-1252?Q?1; CY1PR05MB2188; 23:SxJMfoZ24uKM+3PVT4CnRxDn7rpii3ve200Lh?= =?Windows-1252?Q?D8w4Hx/t/H1x0iS2GQArnWNez9ORfN7FBwKMD9pWrawh2CwNZeC5uYiT?= =?Windows-1252?Q?AUc8BMeYxwco0/XjGUNxQClYz5S7ciBr0LLJQwILpo8tYL5y7+S4SLQd?= =?Windows-1252?Q?UR2/cF2jk7Vt9LrGetmvYpvy4Zzq2dQHuB3v89/VFilYSTtwMWW9BcY4?= =?Windows-1252?Q?EYA1X/qpIHO2Sv86etwCXjIG0+lScjl51vDCvtGnw1A+DqG3An2ri5Js?= =?Windows-1252?Q?6+0sCD6kfM6xTaAqgis9hJg6sGBGLwtoNdO1wHhHzPGiByNz3r3tFPKW?= =?Windows-1252?Q?JYAODo10Ok7N4jMg+3FubZLr4Lr5ebhX1AfHVojWVGf5sDD5HtXtqfja?= =?Windows-1252?Q?12Gi5XIt0YjVjC2sqF/JCxXiECEPWmWVJ2RSkXNW8wh03VNWxEr2oNCo?= =?Windows-1252?Q?9NwkpuThP/IEMI8VASkAML+p2NEM1cE4T8AUQexJioSlakI/4A6eVFjL?= =?Windows-1252?Q?YZRdl/PrDXj/rfwFnswyXESdoEWOEe0Ga1QBI7IGkXnq+xfZjRLOSTuA?= =?Windows-1252?Q?73sdUWJELg9pLOCyonTCNlVeDXyxWQs9V+Ba32T3YMQGwgzyJn943eu9?= =?Windows-1252?Q?9KxovgEa3kesjnfA4xpNGQu3VIHui7C9LK/FszQW8W/g3OPpFmYMMhKk?= =?Windows-1252?Q?CmCf/6k1iCTPdLKTHw1WYQDIyC6nLtzgDz8L4nqMmsHnTAeqlAwarLyh?= =?Windows-1252?Q?qaxHxdg8yBMH+WYk+t3JwidDntVSYgzETDp7d20cZYk9esAHLxgdvSOU?= =?Windows-1252?Q?eoL8jOWAownjYvUO//P5bZ6h8usZbZAFgh22ClOJxABHjCalKxQ1Hrd7?= =?Windows-1252?Q?xnblzKzvaM6rvbO/zsOKnYIlU8UxpbnwlODPThR3XX6KReeAf/fS4Zdi?= =?Windows-1252?Q?h6bX65j+p/XwqKheJwqxHreS+ykOTrBR1DebvhyVlj3wUIRxQIEDkJfl?= =?Windows-1252?Q?dr/flPJpUDSkaJHc9M32cE1eYZD5amJTMo+e0jFC5camrbM6xoXrwBER?= =?Windows-1252?Q?GB6Xjk1nLdKV9Mr8PyF1Cr0vpOKUB34FJkaHRhqT2PBbtvEgByllmUnZ?= =?Windows-1252?Q?MMbeQFoR4QoIJhKcBy37xX7u2D798YcK6BbzwmKMwgKmsX1QFPXC5JRD?= =?Windows-1252?Q?ubGC3JepHL0umB3sG9PCixzkNoBeobe3lDRT0qL2j5tyw07WkHx+GoKY?= =?Windows-1252?Q?LWeA3RMt/O/hYrGFxaA26jr7BuUB6WBUc9mD+WsGE0SgHxE+3eBvwzdZ?= =?Windows-1252?Q?IKmtxXWYpBRpryN0NjGdAfM1vQNMVygto6ViMFXCznXVBwuO417I7MPW?= =?Windows-1252?Q?S4C6zxsMw0N?=
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB2188; 6: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; 5:gowgbscuiTEaMSGpx2NAGw2FeW17dayIui3DrBFO61km2CdHZOFEIyF/PsJlPQ6D5QUEzLsX6g3v5PqlZLZEATq/EbrClKcREBmV5MwK/x9pVsmJMjn37jaXuK6hxzq28cXeE4gYB4JBqWCtmKmyWw==; 24:gI+FSDRkzJYrGx0ptaBwDraRAmbavWh1HguO1F9idCmLorlh7tPKl0WCsH8jNLkrTa69HymBVyNOpYUmG7BvdTzyJNmG1utMONrbH0E1YUI=
SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99
SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY1PR05MB2188; 7:MrLejcpjGwPZdDzqc7n40qTxTlEwiQnUxJ+Ig1j1jsO2XIK4V1y3j/W5PvZdOizuGQKQAYYfOh4liTpJ10XPISblsA6ov9Zh8+yVAHOkoIb8S3rab0I1IfQrhyDH457o5oOPHp+4wIp/hfue+UBH5epp3Rz72GEoJtpII5gEqcbiWg4x4FOeLOlraOuzgXAsWL5yn9ebOz/ozZeu5wI4te1pC3f5EQx9D8dvmeVo7HRhw+uA4rw4YFfa6sVK9Qrqk/5ywm9hV+TDQwFbcTD62BNL9isNdfWCjI4qymjj1lLZm/XKqJ+rmC/vsiEBxahrgErOeNGh+ikikXb764ioJA==
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2017 21:49:37.8890 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB2188
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/bCdCdchcxJ303htQWzsbHYVMiao>
Subject: Re: [Idr] IETF LC for IDR-ish document <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:49:42 -0000

On 4/20/2017 5:08 PM, Job Snijders wrote:
> So a change like bgp-reject will take many years to be deployed within 
> a single network, how can that be reconciled with the perceived 
> "surprise"?
>

The surprise comes when the first router with the new defaults is deployed.

The fact that one or two intermediate releases had been deployed during 
the previous several years doesn't lessen the surprise.

This isn't a problem for the folks who want the defaults changed and who 
understand all the issues, it's only a problem for everyone else.