Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attribute 30) was squatted on..)

t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> Thu, 27 October 2016 11:36 UTC

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From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: <marco@lamehost.it>, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:33:29 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attribute 30) was squatted on..)
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----- Original Message -----
From: <marco@lamehost.it>;
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:22 AM

> October 27, 2016 11:54 AM, "Job Snijders" <job@ntt.net>; wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:20:38AM +0200, Sander Steffann wrote:
> >
> >> Op 26 okt. 2016, om 19:32 heeft marco@lamehost.it het volgende
geschreven:
> >> October 26, 2016 6:57 PM, "heasley" <heas@shrubbery.net>; wrote:
> >> Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 12:43:23AM -0700, Brian Dickson:
> >>
> >> Rather than deprecate the two sequential values, why not reserve a
> >> small range which includes those values, for non-permanent
> >> reservations for vendor development use? Say 30-35 inclusive?
> >>
> >> isnt this bgp path attribute 255?
> >>
> >> I was suggesting the same thing out-of-list today.
> >> We should really assign ~5 values to experimental/development
puroposes
> >>
> >> I think this would be useful both to allow for larger-scale testing
of
> >> new attributes, and for vendors to be more easily be able to test
> >> multiple new attributes in-house.
> >
> > The problem here is that people are not abiding the rules, and
offering
> > more codepoints will only work if people abide those rules. I have
no
> > confidence that more dev codepoints resolve the issue.
>
> Job,
>
> I am just trying to cope with the status quo.
> Vendors are squatting codepoints for their own purposes, it is
obviously is bad and they shouldn't, but they do.
>
> I can understand how a single value may not be enough for large
environments with multiple development processes.
> So i think that we should try address the "unpleasant" habit of
squatting what they should ask for by giving them enough room to work
with.
>
> My *wish* is in that way vendors will use experimental space in
development phase and get back to the community to get an assignment
when ready.

Marco

This is an issue that has come up many times,for many protocols,in the
IETF.

The issue that vendors raise is that having got everything tested and
working on an experimental code point, everything has to be changed to a
standard one and that introduces errors (well, I could write code to
minimise the risk of that, but suspect that not all do and even then,
there is non-code like documentation that needs fixing).

So the IETF introduced early assignment and made it quite easy to use.

The issue that vendors raise is that an early allocation early in their
process discloses to competitors what they are up to which loses the
vendor their commercial advantage.

So they squat, and hope that when they are ready to disclose what they
have done, then that code point will still be available for use.  I
think it not  a coincidence that the squats are in the 'next available'
range and not in some dark corner where noone else will go.

This sort of dance has been going on for at least 20 years because there
is no good answer and the experimental option remains little used (at
least in some registries).

Experiments that fail to turn into production code are fine; those that
do are problematic.

Tom Petch

> Regards
>
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