Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attribute 30) was squatted on..)
t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> Thu, 27 October 2016 11:36 UTC
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From: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: marco@lamehost.it, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:33:29 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attribute 30) was squatted on..)
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----- Original Message ----- From: <marco@lamehost.it> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 11:22 AM > October 27, 2016 11:54 AM, "Job Snijders" <job@ntt.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:20:38AM +0200, Sander Steffann wrote: > > > >> Op 26 okt. 2016, om 19:32 heeft marco@lamehost.it het volgende geschreven: > >> October 26, 2016 6:57 PM, "heasley" <heas@shrubbery.net> wrote: > >> Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 12:43:23AM -0700, Brian Dickson: > >> > >> Rather than deprecate the two sequential values, why not reserve a > >> small range which includes those values, for non-permanent > >> reservations for vendor development use? Say 30-35 inclusive? > >> > >> isnt this bgp path attribute 255? > >> > >> I was suggesting the same thing out-of-list today. > >> We should really assign ~5 values to experimental/development puroposes > >> > >> I think this would be useful both to allow for larger-scale testing of > >> new attributes, and for vendors to be more easily be able to test > >> multiple new attributes in-house. > > > > The problem here is that people are not abiding the rules, and offering > > more codepoints will only work if people abide those rules. I have no > > confidence that more dev codepoints resolve the issue. > > Job, > > I am just trying to cope with the status quo. > Vendors are squatting codepoints for their own purposes, it is obviously is bad and they shouldn't, but they do. > > I can understand how a single value may not be enough for large environments with multiple development processes. > So i think that we should try address the "unpleasant" habit of squatting what they should ask for by giving them enough room to work with. > > My *wish* is in that way vendors will use experimental space in development phase and get back to the community to get an assignment when ready. Marco This is an issue that has come up many times,for many protocols,in the IETF. The issue that vendors raise is that having got everything tested and working on an experimental code point, everything has to be changed to a standard one and that introduces errors (well, I could write code to minimise the risk of that, but suspect that not all do and even then, there is non-code like documentation that needs fixing). So the IETF introduced early assignment and made it quite easy to use. The issue that vendors raise is that an early allocation early in their process discloses to competitors what they are up to which loses the vendor their commercial advantage. So they squat, and hope that when they are ready to disclose what they have done, then that code point will still be available for use. I think it not a coincidence that the squats are in the 'next available' range and not in some dark corner where noone else will go. This sort of dance has been going on for at least 20 years because there is no good answer and the experimental option remains little used (at least in some registries). Experiments that fail to turn into production code are fine; those that do are problematic. Tom Petch > Regards > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
- [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attrib… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… bruno.decraene
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Michael H Lambert
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jared Mauch
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Kristian Larsson
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Dickinson, Ian
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Julian Seifert
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Peter Hessler
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… John G. Scudder
- [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [was:… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Susan Hares
- [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Peter Hessler
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Wesley George
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Jared Mauch
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild 'Peter Hessler'
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] Early allocation for wide communities [… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… marco
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… marco
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Geoff Huston
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Paul Jakma
- [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (Attrib… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Alvaro Retana (aretana)
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Brian Dickson
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Christopher Morrow
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… heasley
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… heasley
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… marco
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Sander Steffann
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Sander Steffann
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… marco
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… t.petch
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… marco
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Brian Dickson
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Thomas Mangin
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Thomas Mangin
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… heasley
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Brian Dickson
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Squatters (Was: BGP Attribute for Large… marco
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Colin Petrie
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Colin Petrie
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] Unknown Attributes seen in the wild Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] BGP Attribute for Large communities (At… Zhuangshunwan