Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt
"Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <rajiva@cisco.com> Tue, 18 April 2017 04:09 UTC
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From: "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <rajiva@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: PFRC - jhaas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, idr wg <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 04:09:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt
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Hi Robert, > I think that everyone fully agrees that in order to consider prefix as valid the next hop to it should be reachable. Indeed. > but there is number of folks who see S-BFD as much better fit to the problem. Yet UDP echo in some implementations already does it > today. UDP echo as in IP SLA? > I think we need to evaluate pros and cons of all options before making any more formal recommendation. At this point however I > think 7880 fits best. RFC7881 to be exact (since it defines procedures for using S-BFD usage in IPv4, IPv6, and MPLS environments). RFC7880 describes a generalized mechanism. -- Cheers, Rajiv Asati Distinguished Engineer, Cisco -----Original Message----- From: <rraszuk@gmail.com> on behalf of "robert@raszuk.net" <robert@raszuk.net> Date: Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 4:34 PM To: Rajiv Asati <rajiva@cisco.com> Cc: PFRC - jhaas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv, I think that everyone fully agrees that in order to consider prefix as valid the next hop to it should be reachable. The only open question is how to detect it when you have no direct protocol adj. established. Jeff seems stuck with BFD .. but there is number of folks who see S-BFD as much better fit to the problem. Yet UDP echo in some implementations already does it today. I think we need to evaluate pros and cons of all options before making any more formal recommendation. At this point however I think 7880 fits best. Kind regards, R. On Apr 16, 2017 10:12 PM, "Rajiv Asati (rajiva)" <rajiva@cisco.com> wrote: Hi Jeff, > But more importantly, you'll stop sending it toward your own peering and > attracting blackholed traffic. Indeed. That’s key. And it could rely on the route resolvability condition to be appropriately modified, as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria. > RS-BFD basically reinvents the same procedure in your draft, simply being > specific about the use of BFD as the dataplane liveness check mechanism. > However, as you note in the RS-BFD draft, we do leave the option for other > mechanisms. > > I suspect the other authors of RS-BFD aren't particular where we pick up our > text for the resolvability condition. However, if the suggestion is to make > a reference to your draft, you'll need to bring it back from zombie state > and progress it. :-) Agreed. It is alive (-07 version). https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-07 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria-07> It can be used as a normative reference in your draft. -- Cheers, Rajiv Asati Distinguished Engineer, Cisco -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 5:36 PM To: Rajiv Asati <rajiva@cisco.com> Cc: "robert@raszuk.net" <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv, On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 09:08:24PM +0000, Rajiv Asati (rajiva) wrote: > Is the assumption here that the client routers have routing view limited to what’s provided by the Route Server? If not, then wouldn’t Client Routers benefit from having to invalidate the path learned from the remote client router as soon as the connectivity check failed? This is what I believe the procedure says. See section 6. > Of course, Client Routers conveying the lack of NLRI reachability per NH to the Route Server, and expecting Route Server to provide a different NHs of the NLRIs, and expecting it to be functional, while still attracting the traffic for unreachable destinations since the Loc-RIB is still pointing to the unreachable NH for the affected NLRIs. The thing that is somewhat different for a IXP environment running a route server than normal eBGP is the low (to zero) likelihood of having a backup path. If 10/8 was learned from the route server for nexthop 192.0.2.1, and you stop being able to reach that nexthop, removing it from your forwarding (unreachable) is your only choice. You *might* have a source of that path internally. In that case, you can use it. But more importantly, you'll stop sending it toward your own peering and attracting blackholed traffic. > I wonder whether https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bestpath-selection-criteria> be useful here. In a sense of good timing, John Scudder had brought this to my attention about an hour ago. RS-BFD basically reinvents the same procedure in your draft, simply being specific about the use of BFD as the dataplane liveness check mechanism. However, as you note in the RS-BFD draft, we do leave the option for other mechanisms. I suspect the other authors of RS-BFD aren't particular where we pick up our text for the resolvability condition. However, if the suggestion is to make a reference to your draft, you'll need to bring it back from zombie state and progress it. :-) -- Jeff
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt i3D.net - Martijn Schmidt
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Niels Bakker
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Job Snijders
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Nick Hilliard
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt John G. Scudder
- Re: [Idr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-idr-rs-bfd-02.txt Rajiv Asati (rajiva)