[Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> Thu, 07 November 2024 13:17 UTC
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From: Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 15:16:39 +0200
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To: "Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)" <kriswamy@cisco.com>
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CC: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
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FRRouting also has dynamic capabilities, but Robert is about dynamic capability not being defined as RFC yet (sad). On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 3:11 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) < kriswamy@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Cisco NX-OS has implementation of the Dynamic capability. > I have discussed with Enke during IETF 120 and also with Jeff Haas on NXOS > implementation. > > Thanks > > Krishna > > > > > > *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > *Date: *Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 11:24 AM > *To: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com> > *Cc: *Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>, idr@ietf.org < > idr@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for > draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt > > Hi, > > > > Dynamic capability does not exist - it was never implemented per full spec > you are quoting as normative reference. > > > > There was an attempt by Enke to implement a subset of it just to avoid > session reset when adding/removing address families but this also did not > go far. > > > > So with that I do not think this addition to the spec is helpful. > Furthermore I don't think spec can progress with Normative Reference being > a non implemented draft. > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 12:19 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) < > kriswamy@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Donatas, > > Operation section is added to the “01” version. Also added > text on how to dynamically send this capability. > > Thanks > > Krishna > > > > > > *From: *Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:33 PM > *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > *Cc: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>, > idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for > draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt > > Also, we might need another Cease NOTIFICATION message that would tell us > to retain the routes > > (while _updating_ new route types) combined with Graceful-Restart > Notification support? > > > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 2:29 PM Donatas Abraitis < > donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> wrote: > > But then... Without dynamically sending (dynamic capability or another > type of message?) this capability it's _hard_ to imagine how it would work > correctly. > > > > Clearly, as Robert said, the operational section is a MUST here. > > > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 2:23 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: > > It is not as sweet as it looks :) > > > > List of route types keeps getting extended in multi route-type AFI/SAFIs > .. so you really never know what is supported by the peer unless you know > how to operate your network well. > > > > I think the proposal is a safety fuse to address not so well operated > networks ... > > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM Donatas Abraitis < > donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> wrote: > > What optional route types would be advertised? I mean if an implementation > supports let's say EVPN, LS, etc. does it > > include all of them or the _list_ should be configurable? > > > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 10:12 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) > <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > Appreciate your quick review and feedback, and the following is the > response. > > > > #1 – Will update the text > > #2 – Will expand the operation section and will consider your suggestion > > #3 – Will discuss with co-authors and respond accordingly. > > > > Thanks > > Krishna > > > > > > *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> > *Date: *Tuesday, October 22, 2024 at 1:59 PM > *To: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com> > *Cc: *idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt > > All, > > > > Actually I have a 3rd comment which appeared after I hit the send button. > > > > Since you are really doing route type filtering here it seems to me that a > much better suited mechanism for this would be an ORF message. > > > > In fact it is also much more flexible - you can freely use it during BGP > sessions being already established without need for session reset to enable > reception of new service/new NLRI types. > > > > A simple extension would be like Dynamic Route-Types support with most of > the existing cfg/cli/show commands or logging already in place. > > > > Think about it .... > > > > Cheers, > > Robert > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 6:08 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have two comments on this draft. > > > > #1 > > > > Draft says: > > > > > This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types > > > per AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *negotiate* the route types > > > > Unfortunately BGP capabilities do not negotiate anything in BGP. Please > search on number of discussions on this point on the list in the past. > > > > So I recommend you change this into: > > > > This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types per > AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *signal* the route types > > > > #2 > > > > Operational consideration is missing ... > > > > The scenario where this draft could play a role is that operator enables > mix of services between two nodes. > > > > Now this mix of services is not symmetrical. > > > > Today session does not come up and it is clear there is configuration > mistake which needs to be corrected. > > > > With this draft session will happily come up and only "supported" services > by a peer as expressed in supported route types for a given AFI/SAFI peer > will be sent. > > > > How is this helping operator to consistently run the services ? If he > would not count on exchanging those with the peer it would not be > configured in the first place. > > > > Bigger question how would a router signal that only partial of configured > services operate within say EVPN AF ? > > > > It seems that it would lead to really weak configuration habits in a style > - enable all and see what get's exchanged. > > > > In other words having ability to know what services/route types my peers > support for a given AFI/SAFI seems cool. But only informationally. > > > > Using this information for automated service propagation > suppression/filtering is IMHO much less cool .. if at all a good thing. > > > > Kind regards, > > Robert > > > > PS. And it may be interesting to see a section on how this may help to > enable new route types dynamically on the existing running nodes and within > existing established BGP sessions with many AFI/SAFIs. Of course assumption > is that running operating systems on those nodes does support it already - > but new services where not enable at boot time (BGP sessions establishment > time). > > > > Where am I going with this PS note ... > > > > As we are really touching a new territory of signalling embedded route > types (different NLRI formats) within single AFI/SAFI(s) perhaps this is > good time to rethink it and write up Dynamic Route-Types proposal which > could be signalled between nodes not really using BGP Capabilities > semantics. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 12:58 AM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) > <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > IDR WG, > > We have posted a new draft outlining route type capability to address BGP > session reset whenever new route type is added to address families like > EVPN. > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability > > Request the WG to review and provide feedback/comments. > > Thanks, > Krishna > > > > *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org> > *Date: *Monday, October 21, 2024 at 5:51 PM > *To: *Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>, Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy > (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>, Lukas Krattiger (lkrattig) < > lkrattig@cisco.com>, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com> > *Subject: *New Version Notification for > draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt > > A new version of Internet-Draft > draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt has been successfully > submitted by Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability > Revision: 00 > Title: BGP Route Type Capability > Date: 2024-10-21 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 5 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability/ > HTMLized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability > > > Abstract: > > BGP supports different route types, which defines the encoding of > Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) for a some of the > Address Family Identifier (AFI)/Subsequent Address Family Identifier > (SAFI) like Ethernet VPN (EVPN), Multicast VPN(MVPN) and so on. BGP > speaker will reset the BGP session if a given route type is not > supported. This document defines an Optional Capabilities to > exchange the route types supported for a given AFI/SAFI such that > session are not reset. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list -- idr@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to idr-leave@ietf.org > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list -- idr@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to idr-leave@ietf.org > > > > -- > > Donatas > > > > -- > > Donatas > > > > -- > > Donatas > > -- Donatas
- [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Donatas Abraitis
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Donatas Abraitis
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Donatas Abraitis
- [Idr] draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00 Jorge Rabadan (Nokia)
- [Idr] Re: draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capabilit… Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- [Idr] Re: draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capabilit… Jorge Rabadan (Nokia)
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Donatas Abraitis
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Ketan Talaulikar
- [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Jeffrey Haas
- [Idr] Re: New Version Notification for draft-kris… Robert Raszuk