[Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt

Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> Thu, 07 November 2024 13:17 UTC

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From: Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2024 15:16:39 +0200
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To: "Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)" <kriswamy@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
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FRRouting also has dynamic capabilities, but Robert is about dynamic
capability not being defined as RFC yet (sad).

On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 3:11 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <
kriswamy@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
>                 Cisco NX-OS has implementation of the Dynamic capability.
> I have discussed with Enke during IETF 120 and also with Jeff Haas on NXOS
> implementation.
>
> Thanks
>
> Krishna
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Date: *Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 11:24 AM
> *To: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>, idr@ietf.org <
> idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Dynamic capability does not exist - it was never implemented per full spec
> you are quoting as normative reference.
>
>
>
> There was an attempt by Enke to implement a subset of it just to avoid
> session reset when adding/removing address families but this also did not
> go far.
>
>
>
> So with that I do not think this addition to the spec is helpful.
> Furthermore I don't think spec can progress with Normative Reference being
> a non implemented draft.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 12:19 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <
> kriswamy@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Donatas,
>
>                 Operation section is added to the “01” version. Also added
> text on how to dynamically send this capability.
>
> Thanks
>
> Krishna
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Donatas Abraitis <donatas.abraitis@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:33 PM
> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Cc: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>,
> idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] Re: FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>
> Also, we might need another Cease NOTIFICATION message that would tell us
> to retain the routes
>
> (while _updating_ new route types) combined with Graceful-Restart
> Notification support?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 2:29 PM Donatas Abraitis <
> donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But then... Without dynamically sending (dynamic capability or another
> type of message?) this capability it's _hard_ to imagine how it would work
> correctly.
>
>
>
> Clearly, as Robert said, the operational section is a MUST here.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 2:23 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> It is not as sweet as it looks :)
>
>
>
> List of route types keeps getting extended in multi route-type AFI/SAFIs
> .. so you really never know what is supported by the peer unless you know
> how to operate your network well.
>
>
>
> I think the proposal is a safety fuse to address not so well operated
> networks ...
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> R.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM Donatas Abraitis <
> donatas.abraitis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What optional route types would be advertised? I mean if an implementation
> supports let's say EVPN, LS, etc. does it
>
> include all of them or the _list_ should be configurable?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 10:12 PM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
> <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Appreciate your quick review and feedback, and the following is the
> response.
>
>
>
> #1 – Will update the text
>
> #2 – Will expand the operation section and will consider your suggestion
>
> #3 – Will discuss with co-authors and respond accordingly.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Krishna
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Date: *Tuesday, October 22, 2024 at 1:59 PM
> *To: *Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Actually I have a 3rd comment which appeared after I hit the send button.
>
>
>
> Since you are really doing route type filtering here it seems to me that a
> much better suited mechanism for this would be an ORF message.
>
>
>
> In fact it is also much more flexible - you can freely use it during BGP
> sessions being already established without need for session reset to enable
> reception of new service/new NLRI types.
>
>
>
> A simple extension would be like Dynamic Route-Types support with most of
> the existing cfg/cli/show commands  or logging already in place.
>
>
>
> Think about it ....
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 6:08 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I have two comments on this draft.
>
>
>
> #1
>
>
>
> Draft says:
>
>
>
> > This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types
>
> > per AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *negotiate* the route types
>
>
>
> Unfortunately BGP capabilities do not negotiate anything in BGP. Please
> search on number of discussions on this point on the list in the past.
>
>
>
> So I recommend you change this into:
>
>
>
> This document defines an optional capability exchange of route types per
> AFI/SAFI such that BGP speakers *signal* the route types
>
>
>
> #2
>
>
>
> Operational consideration is missing ...
>
>
>
> The scenario where this draft could play a role is that operator enables
> mix of services between two nodes.
>
>
>
> Now this mix of services is not symmetrical.
>
>
>
> Today session does not come up and it is clear there is configuration
> mistake which needs to be corrected.
>
>
>
> With this draft session will happily come up and only "supported" services
> by a peer as expressed in supported route types for a given AFI/SAFI peer
> will be sent.
>
>
>
> How is this helping operator to consistently run the services ? If he
> would not count on exchanging those with the peer it would not be
> configured in the first place.
>
>
>
> Bigger question how would a router signal that only partial of configured
> services operate within say EVPN AF ?
>
>
>
> It seems that it would lead to really weak configuration habits in a style
> - enable all and see what get's exchanged.
>
>
>
> In other words having ability to know what services/route types my peers
> support for a given AFI/SAFI seems cool. But only informationally.
>
>
>
> Using this information for automated service propagation
> suppression/filtering is IMHO much less cool .. if at all a good thing.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> PS. And it may be interesting to see a section on how this may help to
> enable new route types dynamically on the existing running nodes and within
> existing established BGP sessions with many AFI/SAFIs. Of course assumption
> is that running operating systems on those nodes does support it already -
> but new services where not enable at boot time (BGP sessions establishment
> time).
>
>
>
> Where am I going with this PS note ...
>
>
>
> As we are really touching a new territory of signalling embedded route
> types (different NLRI formats) within single AFI/SAFI(s) perhaps this is
> good time to rethink it and write up Dynamic Route-Types proposal which
> could be signalled between nodes not really using BGP Capabilities
> semantics.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2024 at 12:58 AM Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy (kriswamy)
> <kriswamy=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> IDR WG,
>
> We have posted a new draft outlining route type capability to address BGP
> session reset whenever new route type is added to address families like
> EVPN.
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
>
> Request the WG to review and provide feedback/comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Krishna
>
>
>
> *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> *Date: *Monday, October 21, 2024 at 5:51 PM
> *To: *Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>, Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy
> (kriswamy) <kriswamy@cisco.com>, Lukas Krattiger (lkrattig) <
> lkrattig@cisco.com>, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com>
> *Subject: *New Version Notification for
> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
>
> A new version of Internet-Draft
> draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt has been successfully
> submitted by Krishnaswamy Ananthamurthy and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:     draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
> Revision: 00
> Title:    BGP Route Type Capability
> Date:     2024-10-21
> Group:    Individual Submission
> Pages:    5
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability-00.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability/
> HTMLized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kriswamy-idr-route-type-capability
>
>
> Abstract:
>
>    BGP supports different route types, which defines the encoding of
>    Network Layer Reachability Information (NLRI) for a some of the
>    Address Family Identifier (AFI)/Subsequent Address Family Identifier
>    (SAFI) like Ethernet VPN (EVPN), Multicast VPN(MVPN) and so on.  BGP
>    speaker will reset the BGP session if a given route type is not
>    supported.  This document defines an Optional Capabilities to
>    exchange the route types supported for a given AFI/SAFI such that
>    session are not reset.
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Donatas
>
>
>
> --
>
> Donatas
>
>
>
> --
>
> Donatas
>
>

-- 
Donatas