Re: [Idr] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: (with COMMENT)

John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Thu, 22 April 2021 19:41 UTC

Return-Path: <jgs@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3483A1070; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=VNVa2ChP; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=F2jmsZ4d
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OKSvaEy6zYfH; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59CB93A0FC7; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108158.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 13MJZCPD022022; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:41:40 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=9m2xPoEnB45n0/5jIpJPq/zYEantPjrzWgCHvIh90WY=; b=VNVa2ChPxVrvhBn3lBsSKvqwTLHHqcEEhNjhFYuPc/Jo/0FsE3sAmua80ovTtWZJD6Xe qvE2nfBAYIaWpWmnAiL667dnl66knFKDvefxrFgpTsrIJdtOGHZMrp1jyBO2Wq+8zWg9 rs7QncsOHVt7jMDCC2a4AY5Z1+LfB29T/6CTKC26cv2x305150jQZH9KMUX4weXMtzYa 1daerQrvfziwfoOXrIiErwn2IwXaDNVM0rX5gm1E9g40mkwpcJHhIYsLPc11e900pqK1 Z3IibCWtl1aXCJrNw172O81LevYVZUe7RegSebTjGfSLjDqkIDbUP5U6L3SUN4JMa7XR cQ==
Received: from nam12-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12lp2177.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.59.177]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 383c19rkd7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:41:39 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ggDiAJAEQB2v+x0H3cpLjj/X3apY+6mARv+aviYRmADSla5HpLHWifMzYvyXWWUYhIUgOLKfk4+AuHjDOGiYtTqw94MYdl3avBvRS/1AY86SfVGcmSy2ISnkEJJInRaN9p9KjLZBucE5pbZATTX5EZS+BBmlPJ5NPRbvPlgbZ7ELCvJIz+4A1sUZDKERApxfZqsA9DkYaBA6N5979FNe7ah3VbBJC915z2g7BOexblQE05FRDfIK844IiMxcebSnoWlQ2VHS2Gn3P+zfILiZdqHPEILt7j4DuXi6qwOALZD+7O83ASZu1wGP1fCadV5e906N5VvX3bGbK4J76Ru1WA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9m2xPoEnB45n0/5jIpJPq/zYEantPjrzWgCHvIh90WY=; b=Pasn7YXAeJpgDTrAu2FQutoC+rqMTi1WfjF4IQRZ31zAg/7WGyy6z6tUHIQpksO0Wc5R1pO6BjIwP2DnRGpjLqIOMNhy+hcVMQcyAEyzctnvE5S9YVok4jOIXsb6H8v3BO2n+rucYOt3hD+muQSWagwxqjAwS2/Dk1og9NSxLDo7PdU9gjSX2io9y73Bxpn6ndsIsHkAGv8D3oup6MTy3KrHZHypqa8HXn57Gl9hgjglLlpfqclnjR24IsxCnjZGtYSgthb2f0lR+A6uvFTWa1RNVJaSzfbzbgdARJ2nbTJpi4NJZwyJfA7y2MZrxIUmaIBlAtjeSuZGVFN3CoQ3DQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=9m2xPoEnB45n0/5jIpJPq/zYEantPjrzWgCHvIh90WY=; b=F2jmsZ4damjBdhzZFhkXYZsMPu6Is4HoOARbNYav6l2Kwa1eGTyMAjqXK9m/vMGT5johLqllqhw6QPgMr/zL0XKc9+1SuF6myheqQO8Uf/G6CXTlP54y3zvwWIIkrrIiE3MAc4dD7QbF74wUVFHGTE8O7Q/5ICdtp44ttoB2Y94=
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:c4::20) by MN2PR05MB6671.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:d7::30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.10; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:41:36 +0000
Received: from MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3020:ac3:590d:83f1]) by MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3020:ac3:590d:83f1%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4087.019; Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:41:36 +0000
From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, Hares Susan <shares@ndzh.com>
Thread-Topic: Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHXNtVM+1slfmAOokKXwLiisEPSUaq/hPqAgAEPbgCAAFzugA==
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:41:35 +0000
Message-ID: <84C5060E-852A-4C4E-8D1C-78FC740BFD25@juniper.net>
References: <161902677084.21894.2107273327558213751@ietfa.amsl.com> <7B788CBF-A53A-4C0E-AE0C-C5C3AA91FC1D@juniper.net> <CAM4esxRfXVuK1ztCYfADr2eKoZkHhgH1J6X47oofdML0QGpnzA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM4esxRfXVuK1ztCYfADr2eKoZkHhgH1J6X47oofdML0QGpnzA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4)
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net;
x-originating-ip: [162.225.191.192]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 89ee5e78-ed24-4586-0964-08d905c6a3ef
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR05MB6671:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR05MB6671C16D8D9D5EFBB355A2B0AA469@MN2PR05MB6671.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(376002)(136003)(396003)(39850400004)(346002)(71200400001)(38100700002)(66574015)(66476007)(91956017)(54906003)(2616005)(8936002)(4326008)(66446008)(110136005)(66556008)(66946007)(64756008)(186003)(33656002)(478600001)(316002)(6512007)(26005)(76116006)(5660300002)(6486002)(122000001)(36756003)(83380400001)(53546011)(2906002)(8676002)(6506007)(86362001)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?utf-8?B?VTFva09LUnR5VElULzJ5U3ZSSzFVU1pVK2NmZmNZb3ZXYzVkZitYd2lPM1lt?= =?utf-8?B?b21OQ2xiWEJ1NG45WndZeUNHNjRzRzJBdnoyK2pIZTc3OUwzVnNDUkZmT0o0?= =?utf-8?B?dFFCMFlaaHZ5dkRWeUxzVkRLdE9aWlpISEZaRmJ5VEs1TlhaenQzRlEyWjJW?= =?utf-8?B?QXFMYk4zNHg0akt4Z0k0ei9oSWFVWEFhSW9wYVJ2dDl0V0pUZ01MRFhUQ0JV?= =?utf-8?B?T1c4MVozMEM1UUF4TzNBbUo5ZVJvamRkSUU4OWRhSjlHeEFCbUFlTXozUE1K?= =?utf-8?B?Y0s0eHZiS0Y0ejI2YVVKMGZyeDN4L3hWWFVTNkZXUWZuT2RDSnV3R0xoRHdH?= =?utf-8?B?UFhscGRWb0YxT3VGQWIrTTRrK0F4d2tMaTNqN3NYTWV4WnozR2tLbDNqZ0dW?= =?utf-8?B?NzlDL0ZaNXh0a0I5TFRtMlhyK0pLSmVQNXo4VXhWYlZTelBZeHhOZWV6dGJ5?= =?utf-8?B?eStsZHZUVjVWdGZNcTdMNVFWYmlUTkg1VWpUWVVzVm5wMkdJcFVSSnREOERn?= =?utf-8?B?Mmg2NWM4dFJKdEtPSFpDTzh1VC9uRzBZREZQeTA2ZHlxam1leU4rODc5cUsy?= =?utf-8?B?QUxBUEhRbkwxd3Z3TzNlbnJLQWVjUCtIaXRGb1VoeWlCalFVRVBLalBwZjRC?= =?utf-8?B?L3JHcGNJNFFnZEpQcklKd1RJaHlpL2JVcEN4VjB1NitRZ3V6N0FTNkdpem8w?= =?utf-8?B?dnNteVVUT2FNRCtTVFlOd3lKcGlSampYVTl1Nm5OamVmOGU1TW50ek0rSVph?= =?utf-8?B?VFY3eEFZVlpTeEpvWjVRNmR2dTFnKzdmTXJ1MXAzeTg0TlBJYlMrSU0xQisw?= =?utf-8?B?RnRCSjgweTNZNUNFZ3ZTdEZ6OXVEeElLbm1XTW9oQkdNSTBseXNQN2U2bm05?= =?utf-8?B?SDBaSzFDQlFGM3IzZms1RUhDdXNhMXJBd3dUanFyc3ZSOElBUnNYNEM2UStU?= =?utf-8?B?YWZBNE5MdjlhZUJ3Qjl3aTlUam1EWVRvS2RtZDNKRmpmRWlGUnlZM2p5U2pE?= =?utf-8?B?aFUxRVZFNk5RTy8yYXl0c3ppdWtPN0QxdWpJbTRXYkdzZ3VXMjJsMDZOZFE0?= =?utf-8?B?N2w5dTlsMlJWSVVaTWoyM1lmOTV3NlBvN0dDamdJdzIyektjWGRlbWl4Nnlv?= =?utf-8?B?K3hVNnFRNU1NbEl1TFBQM3JRa2ZPdERqeFdYVDJVdU9xT3lNZW92Y2FxL0RM?= =?utf-8?B?cEk0WEtwamV4bVFmWTVRUVFKRlhVUjhEb3BUcmpHOVc2Vnh5T3hiTTcyWmpt?= =?utf-8?B?QVlHVnFYVVl2eGNocVkxeU5iWGhyOFk5aHJDYzQxRFJFbGNyRkdzY0tJMEMv?= =?utf-8?B?VytvZmdwSHQwNXdCTFJ6WVdQN2kwRW56b0tTMHRqYmFtOUZoaTZ6Y2tGMXdy?= =?utf-8?B?dlFKY3pXZFNOSjM5clAwcjBUeTg1VHhkamdSUzkxakpnazFoNm9jRnBhWHA1?= =?utf-8?B?RC9JT3A0VHJ2akNmYnh4b3JRS3QrOG1wTkd1eGtSeUVXVVE1bmg3M0Z6WmNw?= =?utf-8?B?K2tSOEJDa2pwcy90LzYwS1VzN3BMZ2I2WEJ3R2JZYlNJZUY2UUMvN3BiNUxi?= =?utf-8?B?bXRsQUFERVFKSnVGdTVqVVpnb3ptb0FTamdFVDhKQ3VJQWJwMm9TanR5d3lK?= =?utf-8?B?TmZYeFR2dmMvQUh2eDVhaWZXWUhCLzByNk1RTC9LMURXOWRZUmxZNlEwR2VM?= =?utf-8?B?ZTVtWEpJemZ1aHVsMTFDL1pCaDNDYzE1SVY2eTk5bFp2YXdxekRVSXJYdVNG?= =?utf-8?B?T3U2V2xmdmRvZkVRSGN5a2lnbnVvNit6YUI2OUpRNGtPQ2htUE5nV3BZcEt1?= =?utf-8?B?VXFJOXgzT1JkNVIvRVI2UT09?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_84C5060E852A4C4E8D1C78FC740BFD25junipernet_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR05MB6109.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 89ee5e78-ed24-4586-0964-08d905c6a3ef
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2021 19:41:36.0081 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UVirD0TEpezwaJbfkMvYvUfDlW8kd1GWxbpR+RE+Ic4DsuJCSQk4kavZA8G7bAB+
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR05MB6671
X-Proofpoint-GUID: vh3HKvYEs_9Mxnro2qeNmaIZQKDGsLs8
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: vh3HKvYEs_9Mxnro2qeNmaIZQKDGsLs8
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-04-22_14:2021-04-22, 2021-04-22 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2104220145
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/tQ0Fv_RS3PnHqMs2bO6I9kadE3M>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Martin Duke's No Objection on draft-ietf-idr-ext-opt-param-11: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 19:41:55 -0000

IDR WG:

Note the small normative change here: what used to be a MUST is now a SHOULD/MAY. I think this will be non-controversial, but wanted to point it out.

Hi Martin,

OK, you wore me down! :-)

Updated to read:


   In the event that the length of Optional Parameters in the BGP OPEN
   message does not exceed 255, the encodings of the base BGP
   specification [RFC4271] MUST SHOULD be used without alteration.  (However,
   Configuration MAY override this to force the extended format to be
   used in all cases; this might be used, for example to test that a
   peer supports this specification.  (In any case, an implementation
   MUST accept an OPEN message that uses the encoding of this
   specification even if the length of Optional Parameters is 255 or
   less.)


Thanks,

—John

On Apr 22, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com<mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com>> wrote:


[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Like I said, there are two reasons not to I can think of:
- To test support of this option on hosts across the internet
- To encourage hosts to handle it properly.

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 2:57 PM John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net<mailto:jgs@juniper.net>> wrote:
Hi Martin,

> On Apr 21, 2021, at 1:39 PM, Martin Duke via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I agree with Rob. Though not at all an expert on BGP, I think that if BGP nodes
> MUST NOT use the new encoding for smaller parameter sets, that is going to make
> it harder to test for the capability on the internet and reduce the incentives
> to support this specification. I would suggest that instead they SHOULD use the
> RFC4271 encoding, possibly discussing the reasons one might not.

As I mentioned in my reply to Rob, I actually can’t think of a good reason for them not to, which is why it’s a MUST; as I mentioned in my reply to Warren, the reason to consume the new format nonetheless (other than Postel’s Law) is to enable potential future deprecation of the old format (yes, I’m an optimist).

—John