Re: [Idr] IETF LC for IDR-ish document <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard

Hi, Jared:

If it is not obvious, let me state the I participate in IDR WG as an individual
contributor, just like you do I suppose.

Let me rephrase what I said, for a code base with a large and diverse customer base
I do not foresee any possibility for the default behavior change in this case. Again
please treat it as my personal opinion.

I am certainly aware of other cases where the default behavior has been changed. But
this one is different.  This case seems similar to the default behavior ("permit" or
"deny") for an empty ACL.  Once the "permit" or "deny" is set in the code and is
widely deployed for a long time, it is just not possible to make the switch between
"permit" and "deny".

Regards,  -- Enke

On 4/20/17 6:41 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2017, at 6:53 PM, Enke Chen <enkechen@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Folks:
>>
>> The document defines or changes the "default behavior" for EBGP.  However, the default
>> behavior for a particular code base or release was set long time ago, and in some cases
>> more than 20 years ago. To avoid breaking existing deployment in this case, the default
>> behavior in the code can not be changed (with or without this document). Then it becomes
>> a deployment practice for the policies to be configured.
>>
>> So it seems to me that "Standard Track" may not be the right classification for this
>> document.  "Deployment recommendation or Practice" might be more appropriate.
> 
> Please see my other thread on this topic.
> 
> I’m disappointed to see Cisco coming out for BGP insecurity.
> 
> - Jared
> 
>>
>> Thanks.  -- Enke
>>
>> On 4/19/17 9:49 AM, John G. Scudder wrote:
>>> IDR folks,
>>>
>>> As many of you have already noticed, draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05 has completed GROW WGLC and is now in IETF LC.
>>>
>>> As nobody other than Alvaro noticed (thank you for noticing, Alvaro!) draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05 represents an update to RFC 4271, in that it mandates what a BGP implementation MUST do. See section 2 of the draft for the details. It's short and easy to read.
>>>
>>> If we had noticed this earlier, we would have either chosen to home the document in IDR, or explicitly made an exception to have GROW do the work. Given that we didn't, though, the plan is to continue progressing the draft as a GROW document. However:
>>>
>>> - As I understand it, the authors will add the Updates: 4271 header in addition to potentially taking in other comments from AD review.
>>> - If anyone has a strong objection to the unusual procedure, please say so (either on-list, or to the chairs + AD).
>>> - Please send any last call comments to the IETF LC (see below) although it's also OK to discuss here on the IDR list of course.
>>>
>>> Many IDR participants are also active in GROW and have had their say, but if you haven't, now's your chance.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --John
>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>> From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
>>>> Subject: Last Call: <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard
>>>> Date: April 18, 2017 at 5:16:05 PM EDT
>>>> To: "IETF-Announce" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
>>>> Cc: grow-chairs@ietf.org, grow@ietf.org, draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject@ietf.org, christopher.morrow@gmail.com
>>>> Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The IESG has received a request from the Global Routing Operations WG
>>>> (grow) to consider the following document:
>>>> - 'Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies'
>>>> <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> as Proposed Standard
>>>>
>>>> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
>>>> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
>>>> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-05-02. Exceptionally, comments may be
>>>> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
>>>> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>>>>
>>>> Abstract
>>>>
>>>> This document defines the default behavior of a BGP speaker when
>>>> there is no import or export policy associated with an External BGP
>>>> session.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The file can be obtained via
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject/
>>>>
>>>> IESG discussion can be tracked via
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject/ballot/
>>>>
>>>> This IETF LC, which originally concluded on 2017-04-18, is being 
>>>> extended to allow for additional input to be provided. Ops AD (for GROW) 
>>>> and Routing AD (for IDR) wish to ensure that cross WG discussions have 
>>>> had a chance to occur.
>>>>
>>>> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
>>>
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>>
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