Re: [Idr] Request to adopt draft-heitz-idr-large-community - Working Group Adoption call (9/6 to 9/20)

Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com> Thu, 15 September 2016 18:03 UTC

Return-Path: <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05AB612B2D6 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZpYlpJ_Ig9F for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com (mail-qt0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7275B12B18F for <idr@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 93so31610719qtg.2 for <idr@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ZML9bTkJ76lETO4vvN4pBKzH7Se/CEi+ymnw1F86oVY=; b=WsHd3wDxc/fPdmJItbptpZAqaKhvWo0uYh93ytZG4yPcFbnVicgO8KQf+U/SmhSwmF xKWIcojMIxKNzUHFn5qFTQsRsQnmTNOJnwumn5jg+SK7lyQsuDP8oPMA7u0c7U/x7ANz hjVxrEoEFg0G4/b3n4mH11VLlp/gs6tICEBapMdMOYvf4qhF8SJhuTUnR31rNM7kGYpq YdFZtVI8oyMyRHafTBJmz0GSaw6L6Qfz1buWflSuxOqi6+n9MRXsorDzQJnEqUYVf1Ge Kapl7c2qd+yW/2xmyZg5MXGmeN/c2VEeSepgOwkFMW5Z2tML8y+p8Mpw2W0p5JGEz9xS foWw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZML9bTkJ76lETO4vvN4pBKzH7Se/CEi+ymnw1F86oVY=; b=btP4yeSKBdr4bID+1nux6iaecnuxktfmfGxQaHIFXRbW81+KHJOaJap/floSSV4ONO O7wetwh/2zxXhmE3bYAmucD50kcftnNk7O5PwecC8hUPxZBOxBH0ynEGjueQ/BGfEHOI XJDLbznv6+2GytmiaDeJwtZwde24huRDQGpXwyu+jhpesXz0DHRmlrYrcexPlSI9A5qd 98V97nyNz1ejmRjo/bw7EDqaWGQ2faXR2Fz1r15wg+NnqvDkHJDbcM9c0JhWqcwI/wQP 6FYBl5TbBg2iumFU+gIi5pFfq7/sp6QpAhM4jP5Fz9KqWEQixOygcHr0kBcufHa8fYWP iyNg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwOrIzHM/s0644eWPBpXi2XKP/mP/DXu09iO4RXk8eErC/jO0f8rqZjwCQc83XH8CzEOUxldBKNlbmFzaA==
X-Received: by 10.200.41.54 with SMTP id y51mr11114450qty.83.1473962587559; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:07 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: christopher.morrow@gmail.com
Received: by 10.140.82.35 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <m237l1cdac.wl-randy@psg.com>
References: <57D9BEB8.7010109@foobar.org> <CA+b+ERnQ8U9_2EtFgyxdSRtN2SW-dcPKOmD+JbemqpcVcH9S7Q@mail.gmail.com> <57D9C5D2.3080000@foobar.org> <20160914223521.GB15934@pfrc.org> <57DA823D.6020303@foobar.org> <CA+b+ERn3qjOixQBD_XQxMq+t3bhHQSbuJfmwfmWFUMHgOcr68Q@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609151505290.1477@uplift.swm.pp.se> <CA+b+ERmMfdaGuXb4BcTFGX2Pdr64E-OFCWCGq3o-2X1KHgXP-A@mail.gmail.com> <20160915143220.GQ79185@Space.Net> <m2a8f9cfo9.wl-randy@psg.com> <20160915164803.GI25536@puck.nether.net> <m237l1cdac.wl-randy@psg.com>
From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:03:06 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4ABfHJ-KnvayJ0LlQedgLp7ZDh8
Message-ID: <CAL9jLaYfmsXEgcjpeChSN7uZ6jTdE7qCeCZAqNhK_6vSb8eewQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1137d534719f53053c8fa875"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/z0YcF8Mck1x75jmRzEMqOmrynrc>
Cc: Interminable Discussion Room <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Request to adopt draft-heitz-idr-large-community - Working Group Adoption call (9/6 to 9/20)
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:03:12 -0000

(shortcut; I'd like to see -large get finished, some reasoning below)

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

> is
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                      Autonomous System number                 |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                          Local Data Part 1                    |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |                          Local Data Part 2                    |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
> sufficient?  that is a binary question.  i am interested in answers from
> operators such as nick, gert, ...
>
> iff your answer is "no," what would be sufficient?
>

I'll bite... So, it seems to me that a minimum answer for compatibility
going forward is 4:4, it also seems that if we're adding more bits to this,
4:8 is attractive for some of the use-cases Jared brings up above.

The -large option seems like a good step to bring parity to tooling/etc
that we use today in the network.

The -wide option is... complex. I don't favor that, today.

It also seems to me that we can live in a world with -wide and -large. For
folk that need the extra parts that -wide has they'll be able to do what
they want, for folk that need to keep and grow their current deployments
-large seems like a good fit.

Does this have to be an either/or? Why can't it be 'and'?

I think jeff's single header option is an attractive abstraction layer,
will that be finalized and ready for deployment in before -large could be?
  o I expect it's at least 24 months away from 'on my network' (likely 36
to 48 given another year of discussion here before ietf-lc)

Can we move all of the use-cases for -large or -wide under -common-header
when that's arrived?
  o maybe? probably? again in 36-48 months + migration time...

Operationally, having no answer for; "my new asn needs to express policy as
I did in my old ASN" is .. bad.

-chris