Re: [Ieprep] on the ieprep charter

Janet P Gunn <jgunn6@csc.com> Fri, 28 July 2006 19:07 UTC

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Subject: Re: [Ieprep] on the ieprep charter
To: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
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From: Janet P Gunn <jgunn6@csc.com>
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Fred,

My understanding is that, on the civilian side, "Push to Talk" is quite
widely used by "first responders", and by the groups responsible for
repairing/maintaining "the infrastructure" (e.g., telephone networks, power
grids, water and sewage systems, highways, oil pipelines) .  These are
considered part of the "National Security/Emergency Preparedness"
functionality.  At least one of the deployed services  uses 5 levels of
priority.

Janet

Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> wrote on 07/28/2006 02:42:53 PM:

> In the general case, I would expect push-to-talk to be handled by
> provisioning. I'm not certain that the capability is of an
> "emergency" nature. In civilian networks, it is commonly used on
> virtual trading floors and as a walkie-talkie replacement. I can't
> say I know for certain how it is used in military networks (they
> haven't told me), but I would expect that it permits communication
> among a physically distributed group of people that operate as a
> team, such as command/control operations. In civilian networks, the
> way it generally works is by ensuring (either by provisioning of
> bandwidth or by placing traffic into an appropriate class) that there
> is bandwidth available to the application at the time it needs it,
> and is generally a low capacity channel.
>
> On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Rex Buddenberg wrote:
>
> > Ken,
> >
> > You're correct on multicast.  Reinforce:
> >
> > - demand side.  A great deal of data in both military and emergency
> > services is multicast in nature.  Much higher proportion than in
> > commercial world.  And as soon as you factor in high availability
> > engineering, everything becomes multicast -- you send data >1 place
> > so a
> > lucky hit on target A doesn't take all the data.
> >
> > - supply side.  Increasingly we can look at the radio-WANs as interior
> > network segments.  Platforms have LANs in them and the radio-WAN
> > has no
> > end systems on it -- they're all on the LAN, other side of the router.
> > This is most obvious in the surface navy today, but it's a trend.
> > Both
> > LANs and the fixed internet are or can easily be provisioned at G and
> > 10G capacities (even in US DoD!).  But as soon as you hit the radio-
> > WAN
> > in the middle, you suffer ~4 order of magnitude capacity hit -- best
> > numbers are in 10s of M.  Multicast is the only offset to that
> > capacity
> > hit.
> >
> > PTT radios are just one instantiation of this observation.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 23:27 -0400, ken carlberg wrote:
> >>> What the charter should, perhaps, address, is the status of
> >>> multicast in this. We all agree we need unicast solutions. RSVP
> >>> assumes that multicast is also a requirement, while NSIS presumes
> >>> that it can be summarily set aside. In civilian networks where
> >>> multicast is not widely deployed as a service, the point may be
> >>> moot. I am told that in your organization and others in coalition
> >>> with it, there are places where multicast is the predominant
> >>> traffic type, however. So we have to decide whether we need to
> >>> address that.
> >>
> >> I'll chime up and say we *definitely* need to address multicast.  its
> >> fundamental in the context of efficiently supporting push-to-talk
> >> applications as one pushes IP further into the infrastructure of Land
> >> Mobile Radio.  and the subject becomes more of a headache since the
> >> establishment of talk groups are not based on explicitly signaled CAC
> >>
> >> -ken
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ieprep mailing list
> >> Ieprep@ietf.org
> >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep
> > --
> > b
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Ieprep@ietf.org
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