RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency calls
"Steve Silverman" <steves@shentel.net> Mon, 24 October 2005 13:03 UTC
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU1yv-0002mg-Da; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:03:17 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU1yt-0002mW-F0 for ieprep@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:03:15 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08244 for <ieprep@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from hammerhead.shentel.net ([204.111.11.43]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU2Bd-0002ln-CJ for ieprep@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:16:26 -0400
Received: from Steve ([204.111.101.215]) by hammerhead.shentel.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j9OD2rdt029886; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:02:54 -0400
From: Steve Silverman <steves@shentel.net>
To: "James M. Polk" <jmpolk@cisco.com>, Reinaldo Penno <rpenno@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency calls
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:03:27 -0400
Message-ID: <CIEELMKPOOAMCIAKANLBMEGOFGAA.steves@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20051023143437.029f6948@email.cisco.com>
Importance: Normal
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>, ieprep@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ieprep@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internet Emergency Preparedness Working Group <ieprep.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep>, <mailto:ieprep-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ieprep@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ieprep-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep>, <mailto:ieprep-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org
James, We can only base our actions on what is detectible. We can prioritize calls to 911 (or equivalent). I don't know how to detect emergency calls to a doctor's office. Or at least how to distinguish emergencies from routine traffic. In the absence of both user authentication and mind reading technology, I don't think we can give special treatment to your doctor's call example. This is another reason to call 911 for emergencies rather than a doctor's office. I know my wife tells her patients to call 911 if there is a true emergency. Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: ieprep-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:ieprep-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf > Of James M. Polk > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:50 PM > To: Reinaldo Penno > Cc: ieprep@ietf.org; ken carlberg > Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency calls > > > Reinaldo > > Comments in-line > > At 02:29 AM 10/23/2005 -0400, Reinaldo Penno wrote: > >That is also possible and it might happen all the time. > > > >I think the threats you mention are quite valid but they will be no > >different if we have an emergency DSCP. The whole problem around > >contention of resources will continue to happen. > > > >My point is the same as before. How this hypothetical > scenario is any > >different from what could happen today? > > Because, as I see it - and please correct me if I am seeing this > incorrectly - that doctor's call in the enterprise will not > be starved off > by any other call. Yes it will if there are too many emergency calls. > > Please review ECRIT WG discussions as there are many > references to this > capability being on the to-do list of many areas dealing > with this scenario. > > > >Somebody in a Telco told me that 911 calls are signaled > different (which > >imply a priority over normal calls). Do you know if this a fact? > > Yes, there are special facilities that 911 calls traverse, > after the > initial Class 5 switch towards the Selective Router, and on > to the PSAP. > > > >Regards, > > > >Reinaldo > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: James M. Polk [mailto:jmpolk@cisco.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:23 PM > > > To: Reinaldo Penno > > > Cc: ken carlberg; ieprep@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency calls > > > > > > At 08:45 AM 10/22/2005 -0400, Reinaldo Penno wrote: > > > >Your point is well taken James. > > > > > > > >Therefore, if we just continue with just EF for normal > and emergency > > > >voice calls, the risk is the same, the drawback that I > see is that we > > > >cannot prioritize emergency over normal calls. > > > > > > so here's the problem as has been presented to me by > both regulators > >and > > > lawyers: > > > > > > In larger emergencies, many people will likely be calling for > >emergency > > > help, and some of them are not going to be calling (the > equivalent of) > > > 911, > > > they will be calling their doctors directly - yet to > "the system", > >these > > > will appear as normal packets, or normal voice (EF > marked) packets. In > > > your > > > pondering, these packets will be subject to some form of lesser > >treatment > > > than perhaps the 10th or 100th call to 911, informing > the PSAP of the > >same > > > event (perhaps a building burning). > > > > > > Here's the catch: who determined the 10th or 100th call > to the PSAP is > > > more > > > important than the patient's call with their doctor - getting > >one-on-one > > > advice/help. > > > > > > I think the first lawsuit will stop that preferential > treatment. I've > >had > > > this hinted to me by many > > > > > > > > > >So, in general an edge device that can perform SIP > parsing and mark > > > >emergency calls with the emergency DSCP and others > with EF DSCP. > > > >Alternatively, in a decomposed gateway scenario the > SIP Proxy can let > > > >the router know that a certain call is an emergency and that it > >should > > > >be marked differently. > > > > > > or there could be a path coupled mechanism for such > calls, but that > >has > > > its > > > challenges too > > > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > >Reinaldo > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: James M. Polk [mailto:jmpolk@cisco.com] > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:02 PM > > > > > To: Reinaldo Penno > > > > > Cc: ken carlberg; ieprep@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for > Emergency calls > > > > > > > > > > Reinaldo > > > > > > > > > > Adding fuel to a discussion that has churned on > many lists over > >the > > > >last > > > > > several years, I'd really want to understand the > threat anaylsis > > > >observed > > > > > by such a proposal (for a emergency DSCP) to ensure > it could not > >be > > > >used > > > > > for a fairly trivial to generate DDOS on the > network - even all > >the > > > >way to > > > > > the PSAP, or just used by neighbors wanting the very best > >throughput > > > >for > > > > > their game of Doom. > > > > > > > > > > At 10:57 AM 10/21/2005 -0400, ken carlberg wrote: > > > > > >Hello Reinaldo, > > > > > > > > > > > >>I read > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ieprep-fram > ework-10.txt > > > > > >>and was somewhat puzzled at section 4.1.2. I > understand that the > > > >IETF > > > > > >>wants to be conservative in standardizing new > DSCP, but it seems > >to > > > >an > > > > > >>emergency call DSCP would be accepted by the > community (am I > > > >wrong?). > > > > > > > > > > > >well, from my own take, I would say that the > "community" is not > > > > > >against an emergency call DSCP per se, but rather > awaits specific > > > > > >proposals with a cautious mindset. Recall from > that section > >4.1.2 > > > > > >that there is a need to define a behavior in addition to > >identifying > > > > > >a code point. So if you want a code point of 1 or > more bits for > > > > > >"emergency", what would be its defined forwarding behavior? > > > > > > > > > > > >one such proposal, primarily aimed at MLPP, is > called Multi-Level > > > > > >Expedited Forwarding (MLEF) and can be found at: > > > > > > > > >ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/internet-drafts/draft-silverman- > > > > > >tsvwg-mlefphb-03.txt > > > > > > > > > > > >I would also suggest reading a counter proposal that avoids > >defining > > > > > >a new DSCP: > > > > > > > > >ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg- > > > > > >mlpp-that-works-02.txt > > > > > >you can dig around the TSVWG archives over the > past 2 months for > >some > > > > > >comments on the draft. > > > > > > > > > > > >-ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > >Ieprep mailing list > > > > > >Ieprep@ietf.org > > > > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > ******************* > > > > > Truth is not to be argued... it is to be > >presented. > > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > James > > > > > > ******************* > > > Truth is not to be argued... it is to > be presented. > > > cheers, > James > > ******************* > Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented. > > _______________________________________________ > Ieprep mailing list > Ieprep@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep > _______________________________________________ Ieprep mailing list Ieprep@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ieprep
- [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency calls Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… ken carlberg
- Re: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… James M. Polk
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Steve Silverman
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… James M. Polk
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… James M. Polk
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… James M. Polk
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… James M. Polk
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Janet P Gunn
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Steve Silverman
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Dolly, Martin C, ALABS
- Re: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Fred Baker
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Reinaldo Penno
- RE: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… GOLDMAN, STUART O (STUART)
- [Ieprep] A suggestion to the chairs Fred Baker
- Re: [Ieprep] Diffserv Code Point for Emergency ca… Fred Baker