Re: [ietf-822] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-crocker-inreply-react-03.txt

cketti <ck@cketti.de> Fri, 23 October 2020 17:20 UTC

Return-Path: <ck@cketti.de>
X-Original-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9C83A10ED for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 10:20:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.342
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.342 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cketti.de
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SIYBjv_HGl82 for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 10:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo4-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [81.169.146.221]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF6D23A104D for <ietf-822@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 10:20:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1603473605; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=cketti.de; h=In-Reply-To:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=/YGHodWBw6islS11Q57K7lpZXfnfVmd9otmgIpjDrI0=; b=kSUnruQ1wgrq6Hc5MuZaVB62/U090kbjamp9wOjPrCrOhPWRHH6xoNFBQz+2EBWJ0I HHkRNwh0+lxzgOmCLH8WrsorvFbOTaSAzEh6C98SSdY5cj1OLQc9SNazzfiOnYsZklBj 9Hmv4VyNF1xpEaeMecC2flM9F+l3wjlWE2Ax9cofbHM0KR8DWCX9Qe6Iqlq2dH4BenL+ tCIJqcP/P5AAngnSUPb7mfrtjEYJ8+na0PFr14gJ3RObfHyOH25NMUkWjU+P1fl/WlHM skniu1XfPBzlf9+K8ELW+GssXucTBtXX87VgFq+/mcDKFFNE4HKnXHN+OSBopx2GHSib mbWQ==
X-RZG-AUTH: ":L2ckdkutb+sebmQwUUWXIIIYdHNZM+Bv5gC+3oIoIo9zZk2oFnqgvCz+Lg=="
X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00
Received: from [192.168.238.245] by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 47.2.1 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id Q0177cw9NHK4VpQ (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) for <ietf-822@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:20:04 +0200 (CEST)
To: ietf-822@ietf.org
References: <160337881491.27133.9061463868224826181@ietfa.amsl.com> <295d4e28-c76f-b54a-cc2c-0e389bcb678a@dcrocker.net> <7224fa10-fd8c-19d3-f59b-8415b07db77b@cketti.de> <01RR52LD7SLE005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <b517fa7a-ab81-027a-8850-f246c06fbcb7@dcrocker.net>
From: cketti <ck@cketti.de>
Autocrypt: addr=ck@cketti.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBE49+OsBEADIu2zVIYllkqLYaCZq2d8r80titzegJiXTaW8fRS0FKGE7KmNttWvWdiyL qvWlP4Py9OZPmEBdz8AaPxqCFmVZfJimf28CW0wz2sRCYmmbQqaHFfpDrK+EJofckOu2j81c oaFVLbvkvUNhWU7/DKyv4+EBFt9fjxptbfpNKttwI0aeUVCa+Z/m18+OLpeE33BXd5POrBb4 edAlMCwKk8m4nDXJ3B+KmR0qfCLB79gqEjsDLl+y65NcRk5uxIk53NRXHkmQujX1bsf5VFLh a4KbUaB7BCtcSi1rY99WXfO/PWzTelOhpKDIRq+v3Kl21TipY0t4kco4AUlIx5b1F0EHPpmI Dr0gEheZBali5c9wUR8czc/HaNkRP81hTPeBtUqp1S7GtJfcuWv6dyfBBVlnev98PCKOJo05 meVwf3hkOLrciTfo1yuy/9hF18u3GhL8HLrxMQksLhD6sPzDto4jJQDxKAa7v9aLoR7oIdeW kn1TU61EODR/254BRMoq619hqJwSNt6yOjGT2BBvlwbKdS8Xfw7SsBGGW8WnVJrqFCusfjSm DBdV/KWstRnOMqw4nhAwNFfXmAL2L8a+rLHxalFggfGcvVpzDhJyTg+/R1y3JMCoFfdFuhOT fkMqjGx8FgTmINOt54Wf9Xg6W0hQh3i98Wza3n8NuSPQJtAdqQARAQABzRVja2V0dGkgPGNr QGNrZXR0aS5kZT7CwYEEEwECACsCGyMFCRLMAwAGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheA BQJOPftbAhkBAAoJEO4v7zp9qOKJG+oP/RBN5ahJCpwrk7U05J8x7UOPuP4UElMYoPYZCSp5 5mH6Xmr2C626DvTxhElz1WY7oIOJ7Mgp1RtGqZYV52d6fER10jowGbSkiFTvKb4PhQl4+AcG ODMYLRVBw90rRhDSXzBQMeiyUf7Wse1jPsBfuOe6V1TsAtqjaAzrUDQOcsjQqW5ezvIjGNTF unX6wMUHzSBX6Lh0fLAp5ICp+l3agJ8S41Y4tSuFVil2IRX3o4vqxvU4f0C+KDIeJriLAMHa jUp0V6VdisRHujjoTkZAGogJhNmNg0YH191a7AAKvVePgMQ/fsoW1hm9afwth/HOKvMx8fgK Mwkn004V/to7qHByWDND33rgwlv1LYuvumEFd/paIABhdLhC6o6moVzwlOqhGfoD8DZAIzNC S4q2uCg8ik4temetPbCc5wMFtd+FO+FOb1tO/RahWeBfULreEijnv/zUZPetkJV9jTZXgXqC I9GCf6MTJrOLZ+G3hVxFyyHTKlWtiIzJHlX9rd3oQc7YJbdDFMZA+SdlGqiGdsjBmq0kcRqh hEa5QsnoNm9tuPuFnL5oGG7OFPztj9tr9ViRvsFBlx9jvmjRbRNF3287j1r+4lbGigsA1o8b RkLLXVSK1gCwbOLAPNJYH5bde6O+Qb8bepg9TByiohsFssxYXHwbgu/pcCMU1hCf15t4zsFN BE49+OsBEACxJ8Ocv8y90ALoPcbh5LXVSgm8cAMvENXouVAPxkxp0y3bByDeXtQdmycmWmHD 0yE/sTYMz4cA0E6LBRaYPySz9cSNvJkoZPGot5bO9xISS1BmszmdLo8cjJFg9KyATHnumJED Bs1JCSmhLanlS3Iuu0PECxy3xN99Sck7XdIMJabOhQHez7gpf+dHGsq9MlzMeu4sCpMr12ix 2FI3StdzAtsaHOFa4q83zbV9CbQpgGKCdotmKu74C0GrFI281LC1LsIaJcqMcBOpQeqWgXU4 dXU2uJgjd2PIDPgjL3qkFHGbjshWQ1jbTDzwjXllkZCoH3Pn8B0ogh4Q1rv+0uv8Uqg296no F5unAANlhcSfqBME0kbyv/Pcuk96IhW45mbPrEkY62QLBN6wwtlhUVBQauv1e/njthdX6jSz 81zmlUF/YtwR7+F48QtD0KFRZ76UiZR0llbsOcQN0KmvBrgfNM1hKlQSd9IH6o9QQBK6SsGl SiTrr0bkGtsJKu4lzvyKOEu1EBxTvlPVvOz2jzXX48cRLFZnsXl4RfJec8B2MqiitD3If2A6 FJP/sOyZ93KZqXHopmFRA6/2Kq27y6WpB7hEIg4FmZnBxxFQOw237DlC6qtb56VatE4nLXWd tGfDCdoADD/RwmRz8S2nyN2KkK10d1CB2+PGcMvbXTL+zQARAQABwsFlBBgBAgAPBQJOPfjr AhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEO4v7zp9qOKJBfgQAJDdCneNOBz8v9+ZggnVpuQx6XMRFEaGNV+pr+g/ qbz0B1DfRinmGE+sI3KbA7Ap9lF/ZqdHtuElzsWaFZSe0+i/0DfjFMJ7diwDvVwmSzIo4Xuy l+dRSY5XdVvV32rqoT5UdS86/XCSN1HYmHLGR91+kn1v4Sy0RDFpv92HwAlVVjZBvT2p4a6D XFa/duZP8ufFkSnSTjoDBhgWMiAL7Vm+ptEJ/e/ABOd6+5rB8GatOrD1yGSaQpegk3sjK6lP dBviSWNwXz/axbFPTi5A0a7ABC5XiPYlz0BsOiMXs3YvdwqmPmOMHgo7WMZv+byscLLIPwC1 ZDP1X7VoFkUp2Zp2cLm4Ac4MMsAcBh8Tx8+wld5QSmX8PFNy+DHd7tWzFLumPo1vt9tg/u/m Wi3SXo5piXBLy2iLXXOtCB0zPxm7Ve0w4qkGkZsi2OSsZ8Bi7YXGFLBiOx2AzahGtfnEXLQf JRFqYE4xyp8HprweXNXz8WqO8NeTtLb0gl9pA+VDKAG71iSb8XFEz0zwRB02FqwJPjcuwm3T APu9a/eNkV6PV3ZuIao3zHA13UJn437XxQda7AXeULovInXkD+8qZZbFgvHyVJFjet5XluYM rC8fTI+m7ulweK2Etcx9pHhrWXuEKpcbLOyT1bCcw/cUqLYPhv1m+xdxyx86XnqpMM1V
Message-ID: <0370845d-cfc7-e246-1717-4f2a602703a0@cketti.de>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 19:20:04 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <b517fa7a-ab81-027a-8850-f246c06fbcb7@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-822/557Rf_wAAbLKxrhtc9go9KTl_E8>
Subject: Re: [ietf-822] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-crocker-inreply-react-03.txt
X-BeenThere: ietf-822@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Internet Message Format \[RFC 822, RFC 2822, RFC 5322\]" <ietf-822.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-822/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-822@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 17:20:44 -0000

On 23.10.20 17:32, Dave Crocker wrote:
>>> Not conflating reply text with a summary reaction makes a lot of things
>>> easier for clients and users.
>
> It's not obvious to me that this is true. (In fact, I suspect it
> isn't.)  So feel free to provide a comparison between the two
> approaches, in terms of affects on clients and users.

Let's just take the filter example. It's quite easy to write one that
checks for the existence of a certain header field (I don't care much if
it's "In-Reply-React" or "Content-Disposition: Reaction" in the
outermost header).

It's quite another thing to write one for:

> check for a part with a "reaction" content-disposition at either the
outermost level or as part of a multipart at the outermost level.


>> 3. Clients would most likely want to hide reaction messages
>
> Why?

Maybe you're the type of person who prefers this:

Original message

3 👍  1 👎  1 🤔

User A reacted with 👍
User B reacted with 👍
User C reacted with 👎
User C: I don't like this because…
User D reacted with 👍 🤔

There's nothing wrong with that and (minus the summary) it's more or
less what you get with clients that don't support reactions.


However, I prefer a UI where reactions are summarized and displayed on
the original message. Who reacted how can still be displayed as a popup
or in an additional screen. But I don't want to see that information by
default. Seeing this is how popular social media/chat sites do things
I'm guessing I'm not alone in wanting this.

Original message

3 👍  1 👎  1 🤔

User C: I don't like this because…


This is the main reason why I believe recognizing reaction messages
should be as easy as possible. Combining reactions and comments in one
message adds complexity without any meaningful advantage I can see.