Re: [ietf-822] A permission to re-sign header

"John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Fri, 18 April 2014 18:32 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856C81A02EB for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.357
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.357 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aEhKGoVJp9Ig for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:32:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37EAB1A0220 for <ietf-822@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 81071 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2014 18:32:06 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=13cac.53516fa6.k1404; bh=GI6YqRXoJFBKHjPRi8Oc3SvewcEgfpFvkzrBZlE81jo=; b=Fh1NoShwOKqV/ogxZFZWpXMR5YSpe3G+PxF/UhUyQoeeTd/ZPA6ggLEkScc2CVkD23g0SOoKKHDm7TcX0KEDoKSIyOpco48aLG8of2XOzs/g9HKqHUdRs+/s98KBYi/FyXrQ615aY3cuVu35ZRG6TLw1H3OTNepc3MTKD2JucFZhcbD/yFRmn6IEuV3F6LkTP+ZnHYUrqIAVwIRFxoqg/Or/IudXpN6IaBP9kH4XtaqqJxJ6JMAjSWypK8jBD0uh
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=13cac.53516fa6.k1404; bh=GI6YqRXoJFBKHjPRi8Oc3SvewcEgfpFvkzrBZlE81jo=; b=Y9GT23IqwGZcm6Nl0TZeL+vhnnsTkQIrkm2eU8sckh5UdUaIUjWKiXqam35kBI+3Q3Cn2IvE6lyikst0fVIeGVlHCDhRn3WwMxuDSW68fxLA2+HSemgIrRNy2GnKMa2qSlX/TL5ybIQpjH/n4g0LB/4R8zmDfa6GOByG3T/q81u+FN+17P4KDbpbdFSMk8K8Nxxi35suNXyBQuihLxvAJzGzBoMb14hIUF4hJJxn3J14UIsmmQnm/bcDloOXu25J
Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.0/X.509/SHA1) via TCP6; 18 Apr 2014 18:32:06 -0000
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:32:05 -0400
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1404181429570.5575@joyce.lan>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAL0qLwbLfzfiqj9dMbxhwDDL1g477KU3HTXn4ns2JPwrjrTW0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140418021925.2979.qmail@joyce.lan> <CAL0qLwbhw6uG=JenLLjJbDGr63NjpJ-s70z9FuwzO_LGzOM7SA@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1404181129010.4704@joyce.lan> <CAL0qLwbLfzfiqj9dMbxhwDDL1g477KU3HTXn4ns2JPwrjrTW0w@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23)
Cleverness: None detected
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha1"; BOUNDARY="3825401791-644766433-1397845926=:5575"
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-822/FpShJ07UIAgfkoAp-z6ZgMPG4JA
Cc: ietf-822@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ietf-822] A permission to re-sign header
X-BeenThere: ietf-822@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Internet Message Format \[RFC 822, RFC 2822, RFC 5322\]" <ietf-822.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-822/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-822@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 18:32:16 -0000

>> Do you mean that every DMARC publisher would have its own exception
>> whitelist, and the adjustment would be to assume the whitelist is credible
>> if its name matches the From: domain?  I suppose that could work, although
>> expecting every domain to publish its own whitelist seems unlikely to
>> scale.  A domain could indirectly use someone else's domain whitelist via
>> DNAME, but urrghh.
>
> Right, maybe that's what I had in mind.  It seems as though you're
> essentially suggesting we need a way to confirm a relationship between X
> and Y, and VBR pretty much does that.

It does, although it's a global relationship.  Pete's M-R thing is per 
message, but it's hard to think of a realistic situation with a forwarder 
that's reliable enough to allow to rewrite some messages but not others.

>> If we expect there to be a handful of widely used DMARC exception
>> whitelists, a mailing list could certainly use VBR as defined to point at
>> the whitelist(s) in which its signing domain is included.
>
> Also, it is both the "go look at the whitelist" hint and the specification
> of how the whitelist is published.

Yup.  No point reinventing something different.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail.