Re: [ietf-822] What about doing more?

Hector Santos <hsantos@isdg.net> Thu, 22 October 2020 16:17 UTC

Return-Path: <hsantos@isdg.net>
X-Original-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972E03A07BD for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.554
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.247, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isdg.net header.b=IP0/IUEQ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=beta.winserver.com header.b=GGV7Tvpi
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AWnOMkMv2htv for <ietf-822@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.winserver.com (unknown [76.245.57.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59FFA3A07B7 for <ietf-822@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; d=isdg.net; s=tms1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/relaxed; l=1971; t=1603383414; atps=ietf.org; atpsh=sha1; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From: Organization:To:Subject:List-ID; bh=IsTaRq0msmBQdkYZfcYEU6ijKTw=; b=IP0/IUEQlUGJE8klH6UG93vDLxrCMlSUqbDKqAkVWGdElBLYBm+3dhXhM2BUQQ xc+1VZyYg1HJUXyGWZm4joygLk1uYi/595HhxxZ3kpugdtfLFz/foJlk7kqYshbv c28teyg6JKTUDJkpQZ2KpJuTF5319CbDmgcfYJOQhPqoY=
Received: by mail.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v8.0.454.10) for ietf-822@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:16:54 -0400
Authentication-Results: dkim.winserver.com; dkim=pass header.d=beta.winserver.com header.s=tms1 header.i=beta.winserver.com; dmarc=pass policy=reject author.d=isdg.net signer.d=beta.winserver.com (atps signer);
Received: from beta.winserver.com ([76.245.57.74]) by mail.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP v8.0.454.10) with ESMTP id 1118512256.3.4040; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:16:53 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; d=beta.winserver.com; s=tms1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/relaxed; l=1971; t=1603383156; h=Received:Received: Message-ID:Date:From:Organization:To:Subject:List-ID; bh=tR7eW+x 0SCqrSHtvPNMap09YD7ONoyvlEIVikJxU1MQ=; b=GGV7TvpikFjc56tWr+DBaOL JEy9zKaTkrfylXIl4a2peTY7hLUY6XXHXLdBNdq7XZlPVCrPjhNNrzwQLQ9p1BZP OQZkbSdA1p5uTjwTUnIN6u20kp1visw6h6DVLtGkkdST7qVoLxMbvIBX4NxcM5KH 9qpIpstsd3i12PczBVOw=
Received: by beta.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v8.0.454.10) for ietf-822@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:12:36 -0400
Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([75.26.216.248]) by beta.winserver.com (Wildcat! SMTP v8.0.454.10) with ESMTP id 985428454.1.13076; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:12:36 -0400
Message-ID: <5F91B078.4070503@isdg.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:16:56 -0400
From: Hector Santos <hsantos@isdg.net>
Reply-To: hsantos@isdg.net
Organization: Santronics Software, Inc.
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ietf-822@ietf.org
References: <160200472484.32429.1941119190733112214@ietfa.amsl.com> <15666874-46f5-8c01-8ee1-88c5b54f793f@dcrocker.net> <4b3b771d-b47a-4f24-9cc7-35830391c239@www.fastmail.com> <9dc5c8ab-3389-a5cf-aaa2-c26895c9350c@dcrocker.net>
In-Reply-To: <9dc5c8ab-3389-a5cf-aaa2-c26895c9350c@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-822/uRqMa4yX7V437P-IDGEStkvT_8k>
Subject: Re: [ietf-822] What about doing more?
X-BeenThere: ietf-822@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Internet Message Format \[RFC 822, RFC 2822, RFC 5322\]" <ietf-822.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-822/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-822@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-822>, <mailto:ietf-822-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 16:17:08 -0000

On 10/8/2020 2:13 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
>
> <plea>
>
> What will make the basic mechanism useful to its specific goal,
> sufficient as a specification, reasonable to implement, and as simple
> as possible without defeating its other goals?
>
> </plea>

There would be many implementation and design questions.   First 
thought to mind, email has too much RFC5322 creation and reply 
overhead for simplistic, small footprint "dynamic notification" 
reaction reply concepts.

Should reactions also come with Body content?   Akin to some MUA will 
popup a "No Subject. Continue to send?" dialog. To react to a message 
with no new content also popup a dialog?

Could there be a minimum reply set of just sending headers without 
resending/quoting body content?

From:
To:
Subject:
In-reply-react:
Message-ID:  <-- key anchor of threads where reaction apply.

Also, does it have to be resign? DKIM?  ARC?  DMARC, DMARC-Reports? 
Serious more overhead just for reaction.

Finally, consider what Twitter is doing with "retweet?"   It has two 
option:

- Retweet (No comment necessary)
- Retweet with comment

It is my understanding, for lack of a better term, lets call it the 
"Trump Rule" change, Twitter is now "testing" eliminating the 
"retweet" because of the abuse seen with just retweeting (a form of a 
reaction) controversial (fake news) tweets without adding any comment. 
I have a feeling it is enabled on a per user profile basis which would 
be without a doubt something I would add to our mail user profile 
system "[_] Allow Email Reaction" a group profile concept.

Overall, I like the concept. Its applies well at the local mail level, 
but in a network form, it has a high overhead concern due to the 
nature of IMF and SMTP.  It can be unintentionally and intentionally 
abused when some of the above concerns are not considered and addressed.


-- 
Hector Santos,
https://secure.santronics.com
https://twitter.com/hectorsantos