From nobody Tue Jun 15 12:12:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-announce@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-announce@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C093A3A49; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OznvSNkJ7egV; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D6273A3A47; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id y7so19460213wrh.7; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=zDFf+UYYX1DKmo8wD6aXm+0MwwOkYCZMxjRv9czgMhs=; b=exycBVBTDSejHlacAIOgCxZTx1y5ojEo3X5WVdqrsPgQvS47fnCip3hcULG6mi+lgx DWiFzUS7Igg32Ii2qok1bILVlwuVhtZ3chCpAQozTu/jLY1L2O0H7r8ERHO/i3tAPlWV il+fLSIZfaxCpoNqPJ/lHA94b8SNU5LpzUxLf3tHy8RhDfGUPk606iz80ct0WlZzMuZG 9Y7KZW47SodRWxvi0i3qDNdASTH5xwJAGQzhmeneI+XmOgW+R01cFVtq1ZpNq2zMWCSu PCVUKJ4sVOU/ylBXHCtYLYmIHQI29qtVbQmqwCkaPTWJfoZFuB42ytE3/7rZmmsndr0b 33nw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=zDFf+UYYX1DKmo8wD6aXm+0MwwOkYCZMxjRv9czgMhs=; b=lSxvtP0xDzqdn+m3xVdlXjH0xDWpoLXZ9w7bhEyzUNP0R45BpWHGV1cOXV82tuX+2A jeJqc2ix1+K608KTYWZDnqsLMxyi7wCIXeTlUF+hVBNV9jO632jIRIN60k1B4KrggNbS S1BVpB5SSRyr30/uBuMyHAbU3mTP1suukEhrFjL3kH3lP9KGcbc1eW7WILN5tKwMIe1l wdJcmKKeU8d1MuIX6OltlQ+bEzp9qcXE3M2ohAfbe2EuZ5QFBbYnl8gqIclO92cSiQrV GN8bqSNQf/HFMk84kW0gfdfC8XgYIxCFVENVsfzFaS6fhna+eljYoUi4XUZxud7AHEig UsqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+NxJoYqqCK0z7yKwjdhMOQUawvjdIgg7ApuLNI2rCNub1YjfA idCwIidQnY3A05V22ovpQBg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdfgzrqUthJEqw5EK697Ztu4EakAC/ig5lbXnQk/2gCyeHMNtByGXPrdKTupOw/pp0w6t6/g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:d1e8:: with SMTP id g8mr695768wrd.309.1623784365028; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.199] (c-24-5-53-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.5.53.184]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c12sm22706017wrr.90.2021.06.15.12.12.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <16616F2C-5D81-4A43-8FB6-35195995CF67@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B10F36E2-ED0E-409A-8573-07B78AE3F457"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) Subject: Re: Last Call: (IPv6 Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem Statement and Use Cases) to Informational RFC Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 12:12:39 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , Erik Kline , last-call@ietf.org, 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>, its@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking@ietf.org, Carlos Bernardos , IETF-Announce , ipwave-chairs@ietf.org To: Brian Carpenter References: <162367936036.30618.11701281285252724314@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ietf-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "IETF announcement list. No discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 19:12:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B10F36E2-ED0E-409A-8573-07B78AE3F457 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +1 I was going to write something similar to what Brian wrote. This = document says it is a problem statement, but then becomes a solution = document. Might be better to cut it down to only the problem statement = part. I also noted as Brian points out that the solution part appears to be = dependent on OMNI given the =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D language, but OMNI is = an informational reference. This seems like a disconnect. Bob > On Jun 14, 2021, at 8:25 PM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the heads-up, Erik. >=20 > This text at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networki= ng-20#page-9 >=20 >> Therefore, the existing IPv6 protocol can be >> augmented through the addition of an Overlay Multilink Network = (OMNI) >> Interface [OMNI] and/or protocol changes in order to support both >> wireless single-hop/multihop V2V communications and multiple radio >> technologies in vehicular networks. >=20 > is of concern regardless of the mention of OMNI. Does it mean "can be" = or "needs to be"? This paragraph seems like a very short summary of a = big problem area. At the end of page 13 there is some related = discussion, which mentions RPL as part of the solution (good choice, = IMHO) but again seems to depend on OMNI. I don't think the fix of simply = removing references to OMNI works, because it would leave a gap. In an = informational document, that is not a formal problem but as far as this = draft describes architecture, I don't think that big a gap is = reasonable. "OMNI" is mentioned more than 20 times in the document. = There are also several references to AERO, which is strongly associated = with OMNI. >=20 > At this point I became confused about the purpose of the document. The = Abstract says >=20 >> This document discusses the problem statement and use cases of >> IPv6-based vehicular networking >=20 > In fact, most of section 4 seems to be a draft architecture of a = solution. >=20 >> 5. Problem Statement >>=20 >> In order to specify protocols using the architecture mentioned in >> Section 4.1, IPv6 core protocols have to be adapted to overcome >> certain challenging aspects of vehicular networking. >=20 > That's a big leap. But the rest of section 5 seems to get back to = solution design. >=20 > So I am left puzzled about what would happen next if this draft = becomes an RFC. Do the authors expect 6man to work on the issues they've = raised? I'm not sure they match 6man's limited charter ("not chartered = to develop major changes or additions > to the IPv6 specifications"). >=20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter >=20 > On 15-Jun-21 13:07, Erik Kline wrote: >> +6man, since there are many statements about IPv6 work in this = document. >>=20 >> One thing of note: in the time after this document was WGLC'd, 6man >> held an adoption call on OMNI that did not result in adoption [OMNI]. >> There are at two places where this text appears: >>=20 >> "The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented through the addition = of >> an OMNI interface..." >>=20 >> These statements should probably be revised (or removed). >>=20 >> -Erik >>=20 >> [OMNI] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/s1S49EYPThX34Gowu4ExPgFb32k/ >>=20 >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:02 AM The IESG = wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IESG has received a request from the IP Wireless Access in = Vehicular >>> Environments WG (ipwave) to consider the following document: - 'IPv6 = Wireless >>> Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem >>> Statement and Use Cases' >>> as Informational = RFC >>>=20 >>> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and = solicits final >>> comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >>> last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2021-06-28. Exceptionally, = comments may >>> be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the = beginning >>> of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >>>=20 >>> Abstract >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> This document discusses the problem statement and use cases of >>> IPv6-based vehicular networking for Intelligent Transportation >>> Systems (ITS). The main scenarios of vehicular communications are >>> vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V), vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I), and >>> vehicle-to-everything (V2X) communications. First, this document >>> explains use cases using V2V, V2I, and V2X networking. Next, for >>> IPv6-based vehicular networks, it makes a gap analysis of current >>> IPv6 protocols (e.g., IPv6 Neighbor Discovery, Mobility = Management, >>> and Security & Privacy), and then enumerates requirements for the >>> extensions of those IPv6 protocols for IPv6-based vehicular >>> networking. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The file can be obtained via >>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_B10F36E2-ED0E-409A-8573-07B78AE3F457 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAmDI+6cACgkQrut0EXfn u6gaHwf/XWNsZbygvBV1XAEIoj1UCpoZ+iKwBwKDajhPt9F2Cp+psFwUaOjnRjMB HmZNp3w77c3cFqVbsVkMH/EzWqT1RfqIhDLxk2FXYd3neayfovCtYJ8I21Cns8LT XaG+yOM9qumWhNNbnsLp6m3BgDxHQyMbVCPds9EjM6F2LEOyh2v8uscspAHn21hH 4fo4Z5wUkre0R3raklhDDw0dZwGCBq/F9WsYqhSgwbHisolBKwI282k4Xm7h/FZa OjWMuBvO7lE3YS6YxPChJawUEpbFwsbFDx6Fbi6xLVhyeTfcswTrk0KY2rDW1C3j xPQswNolej+4g9ZuARAyZjAf4NLYkg== =YlmZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B10F36E2-ED0E-409A-8573-07B78AE3F457--