IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ietf-dkim] Adding an aim= tag to DKIM Signature Tag Specifications

"Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> Tue, 12 May 2020 17:10 UTC

Return-Path: <superuser@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-dkim@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-dkim@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F00C33A081F for <ietf-dkim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wYSbuPTahJ65 for <ietf-dkim@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ua1-x930.google.com (mail-ua1-x930.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::930]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 413A63A079D for <ietf-dkim@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ua1-x930.google.com with SMTP id z16so5005012uae.11 for <ietf-dkim@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=H+cT1MuP6Ws5w7sWiLe5prmp96P12e8gjROgaaBvcRg=; b=sSux54Cyc8UJkwNc6ZBbd/yF2LpyZeFpNBDeRgqj2+zBEosFE+e37cwDOalzKZxWJt 78tElTPyHvLxGHwZizj+wWqGRZhvtT36UUShTGObjjQbO23q/y22PXiJTRTjO6O2SoIt QfRL0Aoie6HAvtkpatwjb4uWGRhE22Yr419H+WpVWF2cV8T0bNFEeevr1hOXec15lY+x mSwLmfHd0wYgZjn2kvRmiywx8jp7JcmEyAi6QX4zag2426Z1GHpep4O8P9A+CKH6ooaC q6PjTx2vxFjImUDSf8gko99hbJGGycGNPPuQ9c6UUzbkobmakcbQetSk7UDPB9kmOtBQ Ocsg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=H+cT1MuP6Ws5w7sWiLe5prmp96P12e8gjROgaaBvcRg=; b=Nw0AsEhhdImDB0JoRFHVDgqGYfht4CxoUhB2OmFfR6bDRILKYG2ZuOSkYkvVhAf3Dk Q/ecma2joGviIUtwbQSdoJ7yGCtjMspHwC2zKlkp1EXwc0LfURcXzgIZozwII9jv0sKW uVhRlRVooJOc3MG78ZRbW3eL1aV3izc/LVMQVkcXxCcmqkWsuwrhZboTASb99O6y1p0P 1yQdm6d/Hei4QUT8ubF6nThW9e/ZFF8JkI/8B+j5JUP4Pf4VwklLQYyxUW7U0IqWCtms oMQtpR9ffc5RAqoAMvCF4A9Hz577Dxe6M/PF4hLdiic5ji9WR2s+KK0tdVT11FkDPaiB b1IA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZiIUNGEbxcrMfWg5eiDI8qdAwbjp9FDLBhUSbKdtcxl5DjHVtL xDNoPcxsLLgcTuoF8ZfcFYJNe6ta89TOROfis5Q=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL3uBxkIZCHlcLqvmFW3uao8udAq3a1qR60kn1BMnRJqqlAazUpWtL91xmnfrCij2oiwLKswsvGuACJoKUMsW4=
X-Received: by 2002:ab0:1e47:: with SMTP id n7mr16961506uak.47.1589303407041; Tue, 12 May 2020 10:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <80533fb3-75a2-1d60-801d-c54d735d4094@tana.it> <7ac84ebf-e30b-6288-81c2-4a6631471d74@dcrocker.net> <5d9709d4-fd1e-9275-6a36-dfc6e7fca97b@bluepopcorn.net> <486245c5-d261-c6df-560b-f022c1ebabd5@dcrocker.net> <551162f8-6c95-071c-3b2e-6a265b1c9783@tana.it> <CAL0qLwYDxA7uyLp6h19P5iSVH0eVen0aEGKRic9BrV=C7gC68Q@mail.gmail.com> <c975c01e-c3a5-a0d6-dba6-f4a1c245ab56@tana.it>
In-Reply-To: <c975c01e-c3a5-a0d6-dba6-f4a1c245ab56@tana.it>
From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 10:09:55 -0700
Message-ID: <CAL0qLwYY4PCFwe8=WTBMJLU3=OBnRfB4TUpRma_WXppnueBQKA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
Cc: ietf-dkim@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000467af05a5768956"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-dkim/TzC3D9lMTpTBFhQ2FdXLDuNykl4>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-dkim] Adding an aim= tag to DKIM Signature Tag Specifications
X-BeenThere: ietf-dkim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DKIM List <ietf-dkim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-dkim/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-dkim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 17:10:10 -0000

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:30 AM Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> wrote:

> On Tue 12/May/2020 17:48:38 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:20 AM Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
> wrote:
> >> On Mon 11/May/2020 20:23:12 +0200 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> >>> Indeed; why would I believe what any given domain claims in this tag?
> >>
> >> If you trust the domain, you can as well trust their tagging.
> >>
> >
> > If you trust the domain, you don't need their tagging.
>
> Why not?  I may trust gmail, say.  Yet, in order to learn what restrictions
> they apply to the From: I have to create an account and try.  There is no
> standard location where they declare their policy in a machine-readable
> manner,
> and policies written in legalese are even less readable...
>

What would you do with that information if you had it?

Maybe you're using a different definition of "trust" than I am.  To me, "I
trust gmail.com" means "I believe mail signed by gmail.com is legitimate",
irrespective of how they might handle their mail.

Put another way: I believe I would only reach the opinion that I "trust"
mail from a domain when I already know the thing(s) your tag(s) would tell
me.

-MSK

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email