RE: Another attempt at plain language
CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com> Thu, 17 September 2015 23:16 UTC
Return-Path: <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6651A7C5AF9 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 01:16:05 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2gg669Nv0aZG for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 01:16:02 +0200 (CEST)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from BLU004-OMC1S14.hotmail.com (blu004-omc1s14.hotmail.com [65.55.116.25]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDE647C5AF8 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Fri, 18 Sep 2015 01:16:01 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from BLU174-W31 ([65.55.116.8]) by BLU004-OMC1S14.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Thu, 17 Sep 2015 16:15:59 -0700
X-TMN: [RNw1FpmbTt1lVN7EknSnTdZwxa47mwUc]
X-Originating-Email: [cewcathar@hotmail.com]
Message-ID: <BLU174-W31BD64CD50C5268C06D211B35A0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_70fdd520-5846-40a5-97dc-75dafc27bc79_"
From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
To: Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>, Tobias Bengfort <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>, "ietf-languages@alvestrand.no" <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
Subject: RE: Another attempt at plain language
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 19:15:59 -0400
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR0301MB1608991D14D95CFB869AE60DD55A0@BY2PR0301MB1608.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20150911114034.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.2d59df3fda.wbe@email03.secureserver.net>, <14D8D8B5-2E16-4DFD-879B-1F7542649FA5@evertype.com>, <BY2PR0301MB1608D2EACF5DD238D3F9DE4DD55C0@BY2PR0301MB1608.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>, <mtasne$g3u$1@ger.gmane.org>, <BY2PR0301MB1608991D14D95CFB869AE60DD55A0@BY2PR0301MB1608.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2015 23:15:59.0691 (UTC) FILETIME=[D06151B0:01D0F19E]
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Language tag discussions <ietf-languages.alvestrand.no>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/options/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 23:16:05 -0000
> From: petercon@microsoft.com > To: tobias.bengfort@posteo.de; ietf-languages@alvestrand.no > Subject: RE: Another attempt at plain language > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:37:26 +0000 > > From: Ietf-languages [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Tobias Bengfort > > >> I agree. Language tags should be descriptions of linguistic aspects of > >> the content, not assertions of conformance to somebody's content > >> guidelines. > > > I disagree. The subtag would not be used to claim conformance with accessibility guidelines, but is helpful for meeting the requirements. > > If the primary purpose is to be an aid in claiming conformance with somebody's content guidelines, then that is out of scope for language tags. If the primary purpose is to describe some linguistic aspect of content, and that subsequently proves to be useful as an aid in claiming conformance with some guidelines, then fine. > > > > The requirement in this case is to either have the content in simple language or (and this is the important part) to reference a version of the content in simple language. > > We still need some characterization of "simple" so that it's clear when it can be used appropriately, and I think we need to understand if there is only one notion of "simple" (or, more generally, "controlled language") or several according to different usage scenarios. > I agree that "simple" needs defining, particularly if a generic subtag is being sought. However, if Tobias wants to apply for a subtag to tag a specific kind of controlled German or English, then is such a characterization still needed? Or is it sufficient to present examples of text that's to be tagged as "simple" or whatever, and to then compare it with text that is not to be tagged as "simple"? (Note on generic subtags: for FONIPA/FONUPA there are many examples of use, and it is clear that a single script subtag properly identifies all; I am one of those who not sure that such a generic subtag could work for "simple".) Thanks. Best, -- C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-languages mailing list > Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
- Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Mark Davis ☕️
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Phillips, Addison
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Peter Constable
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Martin J. Dürst
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Mark Davis ☕️
- RE: Another attempt at plain language CE Whitehead
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Kent Karlsson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Kent Karlsson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Kent Karlsson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language CE Whitehead
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language David Starner
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: Another attempt at plain language David Starner
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language John Cowan
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Doug Ewell
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Felix Sasaki
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Kent Karlsson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Peter Constable
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Peter Constable
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Kent Karlsson
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Phillips, Addison
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Peter Constable
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Peter Constable
- RE: Another attempt at plain language CE Whitehead
- RE: Another attempt at plain language Shawn Steele
- Re: Another attempt at plain language dzo
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Felix Sasaki
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Michael Everson
- Re: Another attempt at plain language Tobias Bengfort