Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in "sign language modality"
Phake Nick <c933103@gmail.com> Sat, 30 November 2019 23:16 UTC
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From: Phake Nick <c933103@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2019 07:16:17 +0800
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To: David Starner <prosfilaes@gmail.com>
Cc: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>, ietf-languages@iana.org, Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
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Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in "sign language modality"
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On 2019-12-01, Sun 07:07, David Starner <prosfilaes@gmail.com> wrote: On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 12:28 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 2:17 PM Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> wrote: > >> English and Signed English (of any flavor), of course, are another matter. > > > I understand David to be saying that it doesn't matter if a signed video is ASL or SEE: one is no more intelligible to English-speakers than the other. And I replied (in effect) that if your native language is Haitian Creole and you're illiterate, it won't matter to you if a written document is in Haitian Creole or Standard French. I didn't intend to include discussion of ASL or those illiterate in sign at all, merely signed forms of English among those who understand English and sign. Basically if you are literate, it's not good enough in theory to say "en" for a written document; you must include the script. In practice, you don't, but only because there's one standard script for English and most languages. There's not one signed form of English; there's many, and reading the descriptions implies some are as different as en-Latn and en-Hani. In practice, there are several cases in ISO 639-2 where languages that are basically the same are split by script: ota and tr, or ur and hi. Serbian has two scripts, but they're a different collection of glyphs for the same underlying orthography. Basically, English fingerspelled, English with ASE signs, and English with BSE signs are not mutually intelligible, whereas all forms of written English in actual use and most forms of spoken English in actual use are mutually intelligible (and country tags usually offer a workable proxy for the edge cases in the latter.) Which implies to me that offering en-SSE/en-SEE2/en-PGSS is more important than saying en-signed. -- Kie ekzistas vivo, ekzistas espero. _______________________________________________ Ietf-languages mailing list Ietf-languages@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages Would it be correct to compare different methods of signing English words to different methods of writing Chinese words with latin letters (aka various romanization methods)?
- Re: [Ietf-languages] language identifiers for sig… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Fourney, David
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… drude
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ietf-languages] language identifiers for sig… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… David Starner
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… David Starner
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Phake Nick
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… David Starner
- [Ietf-languages] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Sebastian Drude (personal)
- [Ietf-languages] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Sebastian Drude (personal)
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… John Cowan
- Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language iden… Sebastian Drude (personal)