Re: [Ietf-languages] Fwd: RE: Re: Fwd: RE: can I share the drafts of ISO 21636

[Sebastian Drude <[e-mail]>]

Thanks again, Peter.


Yes, in principle that seems feasible (even if one or two other IETF 
members would like to join?).

So let me understand this properly, I (me as a person?) could request 
with ISO (so to Mercè again, is it?) that IETF enters a liaison A with 
TC37/SC2, and Doug (and perhaps someone else) be IETF's representatives 
in this liaison?  (Shouldn't  that be approved somehow within IETF first?)

Hopefully indeed ANSI (which is the responsible member body) would 
approve that if approached by ISO.

I will have to look into the documentation that Mercè sent to understand 
the steps to establish such a liaison.  I'll do so as soon as I find the 
time.


Best,

Sebastian

-- 

Museu P.E. Goeldi, CCH, Linguistica ▪ Av. Perimetral, 1901
Terra Firme, CEP: 66077-530 ▪ Belém do Pará – PA ▪ Brazil
[e-mail] ▪ [phone] ▪ [phone]
Priv: Tv. Juvenal Cordeiro, 184, Apt 104 ▪ 66070-300 Belém

On 10/12/2020 17:02, Peter Constable wrote:
>
> If Doug Ewell is the only one interested, then you could request that 
> he be recorded as representative for IETF as a category A liaison to 
> TC37/SC2. Given the nature of IETF, I don’t know if there might be 
> complications in getting that approved.
>
> “When an organization applies for a liaison with a technical 
> committee/subcommittee, the office of the
>
> CEO will check with the member body in the country in which the 
> organization is located. If the member
>
> body does not agree that the eligibility criteria have been met, the 
> matter will be referred to the TMB to
>
> define the eligibility.”
>
> Will they just say, “Oh, we already know about IETF; approved”? Or 
> will they say, “Let’s figure out who at IETF to contact to confirm 
> that they desire a liaison relationship and that this person is their 
> representative”?
>
> Peter
>
> *From:* Sebastian Drude <[e-mail]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2020 6:45 AM
> *To:* Peter Constable <[e-mail]>; IETF Languages Discussion 
> <[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ietf-languages] Fwd: RE: Re: Fwd: RE: can I share the 
> drafts of ISO 21636
>
> Thanks, Peter.
>
> Your help will certainly be useful, much appreciated.
>
> I do not think that the cooperation on TR 21636 and BCP47 necessarily 
> needs to go via participating in ISO TC37/SC2/WG*1*, but those who 
> what to cooperate need a legal way to have access to the TR drafts.
>
> We'll figure that out when it comes to forming a concrete working 
> group on that cooperation.
>
>
> Best wishes from Brazil,
> Sebastian
>
>   
> -- 
>   
> Museu P.E. Goeldi, CCH, Linguistica ▪ Av. Perimetral, 1901
> Terra Firme, CEP: 66077-530 ▪ Belém do Pará – PA ▪ Brazil
> [e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>  ▪ [phone] ▪ [phone]
> Priv: Tv. Juvenal Cordeiro, 184, Apt 104 ▪ 66070-300 Belém
>
> On 10/12/2020 03:49, Peter Constable wrote:
>
>     If there are US persons that would like to become active in
>     TC37/SC2/WG2 to participate in work on ISO TR 21636 (currently in
>     development), you can respond to me privately and I can help
>     facilitate that.
>
>     Peter
>
>     *From:* Ietf-languages <[e-mail]>
>     <mailto:[e-mail]> *On Behalf Of *Sebastian
>     Drude
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, December 9, 2020 5:07 PM
>     *To:* IETF Languages Discussion <[e-mail]>
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     *Subject:* [Ietf-languages] Fwd: RE: Re: Fwd: RE: can I share the
>     drafts of ISO 21636
>
>     Dear IETF-Languages group,
>
>
>     just to let you know, I got a response from the responsible ISO
>     secretariat (below).
>
>     I hope that it may be a possibility that those IETF-experts
>     interested in collaborating with us on making ISO TR 21636 and BCP
>     47 interoperable be recognized as experts sent by ANSI (and/or
>     NIST?) to participate in ISO TC 37 / SC 2.  That is how I am
>     participating, as a German DIN delegate expert (via University
>     Frankfurt).
>
>     Perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact the corresponding ANSI
>     people?  I guess you may have better contacts than "[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>".
>
>     Or you see other possibilities.
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Sebastian
>
>     -------- Forwarded Message --------
>
>     *Subject: *
>
>     	
>
>     RE: Re: [Ietf-languages] Fwd: RE: can I share the drafts of ISO 21636
>
>     *Date: *
>
>     	
>
>     Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:21:21 +0000
>
>     *From: *
>
>     	
>
>     FERRES Mercè <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>     *To: *
>
>     	
>
>     Drude Sebastian Mr <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>,
>     Galinski Christian Dr <[e-mail]>
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>
>
>     Dear Sebastian,
>
>     Thanks for your request.
>
>     Technical participation in ISO is restricted to the ISO member
>     bodies and liaison organisations.
>
>     The US member body for ISO is ANSI: experts would have to be
>     appointed by ANSI. But I can see we have very many expert from
>     NIST in ISO, so although I do  not know how NIST and ANSI
>     coordinate, it seems possible that the experts come from NIST.
>
>     This is a general ANSI contact, in case it helps:
>     https://www.iso.org/member/2188.html
>     <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fmember%2F2188.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3d285e825ab94935b95708d89d1a280d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637432082957393575%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2BaXbr50qqcOHDLIbutRAgCqzDsIDA3Gq%2FfyGFU4%2FklE%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Mercè
>
>     mercè ferrés hernández
>     technical programme manager | standardization department |
>     iso central secretariat
>     <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fiso%2Fcontact_iso&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3d285e825ab94935b95708d89d1a280d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637432082957393575%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2MtACHnDdjr9bIrKVHS3V6KqpJAXdOR21WcH4uKOeTQ%3D&reserved=0>
>     | phone: [phone]
>
>     *From:* Sebastian Drude <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     *Sent:* 2020-12-08 20:57
>     *To:* FERRES Mercè <[e-mail]> <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>     Galinski Christian Dr <[e-mail]>
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     *Subject:* Fwd: Re: [Ietf-languages] Fwd: RE: can I share the
>     drafts of ISO 21636
>
>     Dear Mercé,
>
>     let me please come back to you with the question of how the
>     Internet Engineering Taskforce on languages can collaborate with
>     ISO TC 37 / SC 2.  The colleagues at the IETF are not convinced
>     that it would be a good move to enter a formal liaison.
>
>     Please see the dialogue below.  Doug has a point there at the end
>     -- it is *both* our interest, also ours at ISO, that the two
>     frameworks are interoperable.
>
>     Besides asking them to join ISO, are there other ways? Can
>     individual members of the IETF be nominated experts by NIST, for
>     instance?  Or can there an official joint working group be
>     established without the IETF entering a liaison?
>
>     Thanks again in advance for your help and for trying to think out
>     of the box.
>
>
>     Best wishes, Sebastian
>
>
>
>             Doug Ewell: I don’t think it would be helpful to establish a liaison with IETF
>
>             proper, that is to say, Area Directors and above. They have little to
>
>             no idea what this group does.
>
>               
>
>             Michael [Everson] and I are IETF Designated Experts for BCP 47. I wonder if SC2
>
>             would consider that.
>
>         SD: although I am not sure what exactly 'consider' means, in this context.
>
>         What would be the goal, that you as individual experts enter into a
>
>         special realtionship with ISO TC37/SC2?
>
>     DE: That's kind of what I meant, I guess. Perhaps other experts
>     from this list could participate as well. The list at large is not
>     really a committee with a fixed membership that could itself
>     constitute a liaison group. And again, IETF leadership would not
>     have any idea where to begin with this project.
>
>         SD: I did not conclude my first experience with getting an institution
>
>         (CLARIN) to be a ISO liaison, so I really do not have much expertise
>
>         here how to proceed.  I will consult with colleagues within ISO.
>
>     DE: That would be helpful.*The proposal has a stated goal of being
>     interoperable with BCP 47, but BCP 47 experts are not allowed to
>     view it or provide constructive feedback that could facilitate
>     that interoperability.  That doesn't feel much like a plan for
>     success.*
>
>
>
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