Re: Pending requests
Kent Karlsson <kent.karlsson14@telia.com> Thu, 26 November 2015 11:34 UTC
Return-Path: <kent.karlsson14@telia.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63207C5659 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:59 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QdAcBq1qB39G for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:58 +0100 (CET)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from pechora3.lax.icann.org (pechora3.icann.org [IPv6:2620:0:2d0:201::1:73]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA40D7C5656 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:57 +0100 (CET)
Received: from v-smtpout2.han.skanova.net (v-smtpout2.han.skanova.net [81.236.60.155]) by pechora3.lax.icann.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAQBYYLf003976 for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:34:55 GMT
Received: from [192.168.1.67] ([81.236.2.54]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id 1uaHaWbeiMCmr1uaIaO34V; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:19:31 +0100
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.36.0.130206
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:19:27 +0100
Subject: Re: Pending requests
From: Kent Karlsson <kent.karlsson14@telia.com>
To: IETF Languages Discussion <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Message-ID: <D27CA94F.33F15%kent.karlsson14@telia.com>
Thread-Topic: Pending requests
Thread-Index: AQHRJ7wEUNvLoTVlT02AterAlRDOdp6tKNAggAAx5YCAAAzX4IAABuEAgAAVHFCAAC9CAIAACeCggABsfC4=
In-Reply-To: <SN1PR0301MB20450B4428F9E32040FD923D82040@SN1PR0301MB2045.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3531385172_18758589"
X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDVcF/RVa1EzG/aODDLqUGzKP9Yd2NpJqCwS6DqapZxK0qK77hpfMp1bX6U50MvD6fNWfGMwWenJLQ/9qDbjZGNmXS34VK6PB84gl2g2lHIw8v5b8+KTfp9baGg0Yznov5HqVZXofB4AyTV6MkagaNnRxE63e8clSwdz6FQjscPm2JdPFuJQlKiMm0+txxtR5w==
X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:15:02 by milter-greylist-4.0 (pechora3.lax.icann.org [192.0.33.73]); Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:34:56 +0000 (UTC)
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Language tag discussions <ietf-languages.alvestrand.no>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/options/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:34:59 -0000
> Den 2015-11-25 21:01, skrev "Doug Ewell" <doug@ewellic.org>: > Shawn Steele wrote: ... > and Mark Davis wrote: >> I disagree with "basiceng". What people need is a variant to indicate >> a simplified version of a language. That is not satisfied by >> "Basic English", which nobody has a demonstrated need for. > "Basic Foo" and "Simple Foo" are not the same thing, Perhaps... > and without > being able to read his mind, I suspect one reason Michael proposed both > might be to draw attention to that fact. Like confusing everyone that does not have English as native language, or have never heard of **Ogden's** Basic English before... I'm indifferent as to whether one should add a variant subtag for "Ogden Basic English", but if added, the subtag must *not* be "basiceng", as that would certainly be interpreted as some/any kind of "simplified English". "ogden", "ogdeneng" would be fine. ------- Ok, I've mentioned it before, but here it is again: I generally agree with Shawn and Mark here. BUT, I would prefer a scheme based on CEFR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_La nguages#Common_reference_levels, http://www.coe.int/t/dg4/linguistic/Source/Framework_EN.pdf). The A levels are, however, so basic that it is hard to give any new information (like in a Wikipedia article or a news article/podcast/etc). So for the purpose of "simplified language tagging" the A levels could be skipped (IMO). The C2 level, IIUC, isn't quite like "advanced native speaker", but close. So, instead of "-simple" or "-basic", something along the lines of: -levelB1 -levelB2 -levelC1 -levelC2 (referring to the CEFR levels) would be my preference. No prefixes listed, i.e. these variant subtags should be recommendably applicable to any language. Thus nobody (or 'no body') "controlling" the simplification, no particular dictionary or similar, as that would defy applicability to most languages. True, the descriptions of the levels may be a bit hand-waving, but that is the very thing that makes them applicable to any language. As always, it is the tagger's responsibility to see to that "level" tag sufficiently well corresponds to the CEFR level of the content (for a reader/listener interested in the subject of the content). There are other schemes (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Lan guages#General_scales), but they seem much harder to use (just for the level naming alone). /Kent K
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Pending requests Doug Ewell
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Mark Davis ☕️
- RE: Pending requests Doug Ewell
- Re: Pending requests Johannes Wilkes
- Re: Pending requests David Starner
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests David Starner
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Re: Pending requests Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Philip Newton
- Re: Pending requests Philip Newton
- Basic English Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- RE: Basic English Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Basic English Mark Davis ☕️
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Basic English Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Basic English Michael Everson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- RE: Basic English Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests John Cowan
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- Re: Pending requests Philip Newton
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Basic English Doug Ewell
- Re: Pending requests Doug Ewell
- Re: Pending requests Doug Ewell
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Peter Constable
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests John Cowan
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Peter Constable
- RE: Pending requests Doug Ewell
- RE: Pending requests Doug Ewell
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Kent Karlsson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- RE: Pending requests Peter Constable
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- Re: Pending requests Michael Everson
- RE: Pending requests Shawn Steele
- Re: Pending requests Mark Davis ☕️