Re: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form

Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> Wed, 25 November 2020 04:31 UTC

Return-Path: <doug@ewellic.org>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4B03A0EC4 for <ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 20:31:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qPKana1OWTZ6 for <ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 20:31:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 620253A0EC3 for <ietf-languages@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 20:31:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id 01C117C64B7; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 05:31:16 +0100 (CET)
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=2620:0:2830:201::1:73; helo=pechora3.dc.icann.org; envelope-from=doug@ewellic.org; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from pechora3.dc.icann.org (pechora3.icann.org [IPv6:2620:0:2830:201::1:73]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C93727C64B6 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 05:31:15 +0100 (CET)
Received: from p3plwbeout15-03.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp15-03-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora3.dc.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A36D670008BF for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:31:14 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from p3plgemwbe15-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.193.8]) by :WBEOUT: with SMTP id hmRjkGrLh00G8hmRjkLDcF; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:30:23 -0700
X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=Yc14Wydf c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5fbddddf a=d9+JVeJtGOfPkU98oz7bBw==:117 a=t2ofW5BjkNkA:10 a=stt6pwU7uy4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=nNwsprhYR40A:10 a=nORFd0-XAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=I0CVDw5ZAAAA:8 a=u5imy6tYgpWZind4DgEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=AYkXoqVYie-NGRFAsbO8:22 a=YdXdGVBxRxTCRzIkH2Jn:22
X-SECURESERVER-ACCT: doug@ewellic.org
X-SID: hmRjkGrLh00G8
Received: (qmail 21327 invoked by uid 99); 25 Nov 2020 04:30:23 -0000
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
X-Originating-IP: 73.229.14.229
User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 6.11.19
Message-Id: <20201124213021.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.b837852c44.wbe@email15.godaddy.com>
From: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
To: Ben Scarborough <scarboroughben@gmail.com>
Cc: "ietf-languages@iana.org" <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 21:30:21 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfFgDEB2JXhRwcptt2ccaMLtzCSPr4Ri2zZewxVxoMFexZDMKwhBdfesNsM8/TcXrYPe/imSvapSjWHeKl10/qDqtQN6luS1kUI09LKy+nHVms5neNskG gJViBlDL+aht2KYMPZFcU6CTbYmGLGbXxb29Kcacdso3fc0Lltuih4/gpdhqETu/6/SJHNDbRrEOot5f1gfaodnpQEpT/HDMPj0ebQwpv7HpTVEhSRnRFAD5
X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora3.dc.icann.org [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:31:14 +0000 (UTC)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-languages/MxG4g5e2cXUx_ePIQd1ysNRlfmA>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-languages.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-languages/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:31:19 -0000

These are both adequate explanations of how Arcaicam Esperantom differs
from standard Esperanto. They don't necessarily address the question of
whether the present use case is tagging of actual content or
documentation of a language variety. BCP 47 tags aren't for the latter.

That said, I'm convinced that this is a solid request. If I were the
Reviewer, I'd expect to approve it.

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org
 


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form
From: Ben Scarborough <scarboroughben@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, November 24, 2020 7:02 pm
To: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
Cc: ietf-languages@iana.org

Doug,

There are two circumstances where I think the language tag would be
useful.

1) Separating Arcaicam Esperantom data from standard Esperanto. Reading
A.E.
requires a bit of knowledge beyond fundamenta Esperanto, and
appropriately
tagged resources would make it easier to provide users with glosses or
text
replacement or even automated translation. (A naïve translation of A.E.
to
Esperanto is likely to sound stilted, but it is more feasible than an
automated
process going the other way around.)

2) Screen readers. Any Esperanto text-to-speech program given unexpected
Arcaicam Esperantom text is going to have a hard time producing
understandable
output. Being able to switch to different pronunciation rules, or to
request an
alternate data stream, or even to notify the user that a blob of text is
"arkaike Esperanta teksto" might be more helpful than a system
attempting
inhuman consonant clusters (or worse, interrupting words with the entire
phrase
"latin small ligature oe").

Both of these cases are aided by being able to tag Arcaicam Esperantom
text
differently than standard Esperanto.

—Ben Scarborough