Re: [Ietf-languages] Language tag for Han pinyin

Peter Constable <pgcon6@msn.com> Tue, 31 May 2022 14:42 UTC

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From: Peter Constable <pgcon6@msn.com>
To: Richard Wordingham <richard.wordingham=40ntlworld.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "ietf-languages@ietf.org" <ietf-languages@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Ietf-languages] Language tag for Han pinyin
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Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 14:42:47 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-languages/NiQhOWd2LZV3EzxTHTlGHe1kIHQ>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Language tag for Han pinyin
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> What I am trying to work out to understand Mark's reply is why 'pinyin' would be understood in 'zh-Latn-pinyin'
but not 'cmn-Latn-pinyin'.

I suspect Mark's comment was focused on "cmn" more than "pinyin". In the general case, some applications ignore the variant subtag, and so would be considering only "cmn-Latn". But some applications will recognize "zh-Latin" but not "cmn-Latn". Hence, for those applications, "zh-Latn-pinyin" might be preferable to "cmn-Latn-pinyin".

Mark can confirm his intent.


Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Ietf-languages <ietf-languages-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Richard Wordingham
Sent: May 29, 2022 1:13 AM
Cc: ietf-languages@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Language tag for Han pinyin

On Sat, 28 May 2022 23:01:38 -0600
"Doug Ewell" <doug@ewellic.org> wrote:

> I was also under the impression that Richard's question was about the 
> use of 'pinyin' with the prefix "cmn-Latn", not about whether variants 
> in general are widely supported.

Correct.

> I believe John's answer is the most appropriate one: prefixes listed 
> in the Registry for a given variant are recommended, but not 
> comprehensive. Regardless of whether it is important to specify that 
> the language being tagged is Mandarin ("cmn" or "zh-cmn") rather than 
> simply "Chinese" ("zh"), the variant 'pinyin' is equally suitable for 
> any of these.

Thank you, I now have two people's comprehended replies.

> It is preferred to include the script subtag 'Latn' because, as Mark 
> notes, not all implementations support variants. But this is unrelated 
> both to which language subtag(s) is/are best suited for tagging this 
> content, and to whether the Registry needs more Prefix fields added.

But that is not what Mark said.  He implied that the 'pinyin' in 'zh-Latn-pinyin' would be more likely to have the desired effect than in 'cmn-Latn-pinyin'.  (In the application that prompted this question, English Wiktionary, the contrast within Chinese to be conveyed by the language tag is Han Pinyin v. Wade-Giles.  Script is mostly autodetected, generally using language as a cue.  I suggested using BCP
47 tags rather then non-compliant application-specific tags such as 'cmn-py' and 'cmn-wg'.) What I am trying to work out to understand Mark's reply is why 'pinyin' would be understood in 'zh-Latn-pinyin'
but not 'cmn-Latn-pinyin'.  It may depend on user feedback, or it could be due to somebody using the prefix tags to work out when a variant needs to be taken note of - it would be low priority at best in choosing a font for 'sa-Latn-pinyin'.

Richard.

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