Re: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form

[Leon Derczynski <[e-mail]>]

This is a somewhat politicised issue, but the official line in Denmark is that Bornholmsk is a dialect of Danish.

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019, 06:47 Peter Constable <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Now that there’s convergence on a tag, how about this (emphasis added):

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
     The Bornholmsk _language_, spoken on the Danish island of Bornholm,
     which has distinct grammar, lexicon, gender system and pronunciation
     when compared to Danish.

If the assertion is that this is a distinct language, then a variant subtag is not really appropriate, and the response should be that a request should first be redirected to the ISO 639-3 RA.

So, let me ask: Is the request really to code a distinct _language_, or should the description be revised to say “The Bornholmsk variety of Danish”?


Peter

From: Ietf-languages <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Kent Karlsson
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 12:37 PM
To: Sascha Brawer <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Leon Derczynski <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: ietflang IETF Languages Discussion <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Phillips, Addison <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form

+1 for "bornholm".


Den 2019-03-06 21:02, skrev "Sascha Brawer" <[e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=sascha%40brawer.ch&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565969046&sdata=lF1hyzJTNZaXbgNlLWx6GbDe%2FAtTjzapG7gVtqFJyCM%3D&reserved=0>>:
How about "Subtag: bornholm"? The proposed "bor" has only 3 letters, which is too short for a variant subtag; "bornholm" has 8 letters which is within the allowed range.

-- Sascha


Leon Derczynski <[e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=leod%40itu.dk&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565979055&sdata=ufuvjVJtLtJVZuqKpNRSTRTcZCiF1cQyiQfbKKctLQ8%3D&reserved=0>> schrieb am Mi.., 6. März 2019, 20:53:
Hi,

Thank you for your careful feedback. An amended registration form follows. The subtag is now the set of characters common to both the English, Danish, and Bornholmsk word for the language.


LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
   1. Name of requester: Leon Strømberg-Derczynski
   2. E-mail address of requester: [e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ld%40itu.dk&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565979055&sdata=yE47oJsDFTBms1c2iLTuTSHfSph%2BcVjSQ2MmEImv5Ew%3D&reserved=0>
   3. Record Requested:

      Type: variant
      Subtag: bor
      Description: Bornholmsk
      Prefix: da
      Preferred-Value:
      Deprecated:
      Suppress-Script:
      Macrolanguage:
      Comments:

   4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
     The Bornholmsk language, spoken on the Danish island of Bornholm,
     which has distinct grammar, lexicon, gender system and pronunciation
     when compared to Danish. Also known as Borrinjholmsk, Eastern Danish,
     and Allinge-svensk (inheriting from both Danish and Scanian Swedish).

   5. Reference to published description
      of the language (book or article):
      There is an established literature on the language; the Wikipedia
      page provides a good jumping-off point -
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornholmsk_dialect<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBornholmsk_dialect&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565989067&sdata=rBFdI03pAvj94%2B3Z6sh19ZvzDlkQItmFkClg0Gx6Y9s%3D&reserved=0>
      See also Aarhus University's description of the spoken language -
        http://jysk.au.dk/samlinger/baandsamling/dialektproever/dialekttraekfrabornholm/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjysk.au.dk%2Fsamlinger%2Fbaandsamling%2Fdialektproever%2Fdialekttraekfrabornholm%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565999067&sdata=EhC6ni943sZeSTtj7suPlToL%2Fqehrz7yBYGSEERvUO4%3D&reserved=0>
      Present on Glottolog:
        https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/born1251<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fglottolog.org%2Fresource%2Flanguoid%2Fid%2Fborn1251&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020565999067&sdata=DZA3VCI5rjoogp7rSuANW2WzgswexYy0dUeliWs95hU%3D&reserved=0>

   6. Any other relevant information:


On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 19:42, Phillips, Addison <[e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=addison%40lab126.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566009080&sdata=p7m25dJpBrznyoL6QyjDaahnIh9gk7D80mu5h4yKwMk%3D&reserved=0>> wrote:
Hello,

The requested subtag ‘bornholmsk’ is more than eight letters/digits long, and thus invalid. You should consider how to abbreviate it appropriately or choose an appropriate alternate representation that “fits”. Also, the Suppress-Script and Macrolanguage fields must not appear in a variant record (the ‘da’ subtag probably has the script field already; macrolanguage is not applicable to Danish).

Addison


From: Ietf-languages [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Leon Derczynski
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2019 1:13 AM
To: [e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ietf-languages%40iana.org&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566019088&sdata=cHO5%2FTXw13oXe5HgBpgzYMxgq98J9aEY3UD%2Fmo7KUpQ%3D&reserved=0>
Subject: [Ietf-languages] Language subtag registration form


For variant: bornholmsk


LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

   1. Name of requester: Leon Strømberg-Derczynski

   2. E-mail address of requester: [e-mail]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ld%40itu.dk&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566019088&sdata=9bBQ%2FTzcBduVyn2gg6Xxab8uAV6812lURI%2B3WTQxzKU%3D&reserved=0>

   3. Record Requested:



      Type: variant

      Subtag: bornholmsk

      Description: Bornholmsk

      Prefix: da

      Preferred-Value:

      Deprecated:

      Suppress-Script: Latn

      Macrolanguage: da

      Comments:



   4. Intended meaning of the subtag:

     The Bornholmsk language, spoken on the Danish island of Bornholm,

     which has distinct grammar, lexicon, gender system and pronunciation

     when compared to Danish. Also known as Borrinjholmsk, Eastern Danish,

     and Allinge-svensk (inheriting from both Danish and Scanian Swedish).



   5. Reference to published description

      of the language (book or article):

      There is an established literature on the language; the Wikipedia

      page provides a good jumping-off point -

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornholmsk_dialect<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBornholmsk_dialect&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566029096&sdata=2fJ68tkj6xRh1NU9CHcOloz37I8%2Fqr5rJz1mtSWoiAY%3D&reserved=0>

      See also Aarhus University's description of the spoken language -

        http://jysk.au.dk/samlinger/baandsamling/dialektproever/dialekttraekfrabornholm/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjysk.au.dk%2Fsamlinger%2Fbaandsamling%2Fdialektproever%2Fdialekttraekfrabornholm%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566029096&sdata=MWhLDsE5g3zEOC8MqsyEIxqXNo6YLOkwOuo1PyH8KDM%3D&reserved=0>

      Present on Glottolog:

        https://glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/born1251<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fglottolog.org%2Fresource%2Flanguoid%2Fid%2Fborn1251&data=02%7C01%7Cpetercon%40microsoft.com%7C538900993d1a4ea8bed508d6a274f5b5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636875020566039105&sdata=MLByi1RqKRTie8Z%2B9v%2BaNrSPq5WyV9ckfn2EDkmL5pY%3D&reserved=0>



   6. Any other relevant information: