Re: [Ietf-languages] LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

Lenny Soshinskiy <soshial@gmail.com> Tue, 01 September 2020 16:37 UTC

Return-Path: <soshial@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA333A090D for <ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 09:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.031
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8U5V4qNsr5Ae for <ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30AA43A0903 for <ietf-languages@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id 8191D7C5C61; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 18:37:51 +0200 (CEST)
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=192.0.33.74; helo=pechora4.lax.icann.org; envelope-from=soshial@gmail.com; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from pechora4.lax.icann.org (pechora4.icann.org [192.0.33.74]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 206967C5C45 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 18:37:50 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora4.lax.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19E2170065AE for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 16:37:47 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id r64so850448oib.6 for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Tue, 01 Sep 2020 09:37:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0wblZYN4zlyLgphhdSlSu7LQVZGYBdjXpGzmvuunzGg=; b=DHOC2uwBlmro8XMZJib3L3GKLkyNg5cSYOw2dMpUDE4/g5kCeav2dUK7Rcp4MSW+Ql iDFNQtuswewThheiMxPjfizNHj24Im9qSb7dsZ8ZiSCYM0c25aX8IKMr0Ffwi6IU9frE 1o8vYIARDVRhKhFwAGK/IMNuFoYSa+2r9cK7yPYUtma5x5F7iQczmM6NEnDwdrP85GHs 3nQu4Zsrsq1N2k9kU13EpwUXRZfGFdxlNFmEnGo0s9LS5vBvIEBwRUm59cotC0siRPui Bgjb2rDEEiYfw0BeDhDXbEEMGsbfmp5BNiFv/g9OiOXUPSwCLZTM9v9tWMc3CGfgbpKt tgcA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0wblZYN4zlyLgphhdSlSu7LQVZGYBdjXpGzmvuunzGg=; b=KTg81fRi547qrGL+nVsoxAeXHaP9meAs3uZ++UtJzWOROULWCXKQ1uzE7QIFzjRGfT /wQMMWA+tt8aJKTkzqtXCdR98bJXJkipBBMPwhThJ2TCljg5dReybGk2w3/BwWE73tkh 9oN697vV5Nw40i3XSUeh/agHtkmWe9Mv7jZEWeMxa0mJEaMVQ2gjOjTGPADfjD8HnLKY gSm2pPAR9rzSt2JIcA7kX7fxnMudTixREeQAn55pVo8Mc+eINbpeWJHSBqngValX6x11 4GDAKRETmllHrIAE3/inSMMnREp17Ft9q97LWg+9QLcpu0ENSXXx8by5L5/umNypAJ6n v8Dg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SAxzJM5Bd39sVgDbXaWRm5iEU/x10IKAziG6GVRAVGryoj8D2 78YhzVO3hEIgHzVwzRlexFZbSIerZEX1pubS3j7avT9676c=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy0F2q1PUmmOwQdx4TUp1TiYWEQUyvLMeaiP7EV/GicGyAoyoyWyCGJ2wEk9+hyTn3TdQORQapKBlTn25WKxR0=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:695:: with SMTP id k21mr1606833oig.124.1598978266137; Tue, 01 Sep 2020 09:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CANNmbuVto_acaYc8SFHEY_=OLdp7FRua=1vqXLSFS16TJhezuA@mail.gmail.com> <CAD2gp_QWu95p_P2aLvPZ3DkFCXaftTgs0_d6K2WPZcoXcPhmUQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAD2gp_QWu95p_P2aLvPZ3DkFCXaftTgs0_d6K2WPZcoXcPhmUQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Lenny Soshinskiy <soshial@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 19:37:09 +0300
Message-ID: <CANNmbuW14OGM1cSPzNkaaXXaPtt=xcuWwhJqGjy=DOMLS8j6mQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
Cc: IETF Languages Discussion <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e8aa705ae4323ae"
X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora4.lax.icann.org [0.0.0.0]); Tue, 01 Sep 2020 16:37:47 +0000 (UTC)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-languages/qXh98Gex98D6hA2CwUGXdhfi8G0>
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-languages.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-languages/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 16:37:55 -0000

It was not actually an exact date, since newspapers were very reluctant to
change the orthography to a new one. And some newspapers switched only in
20s.
I wouldn't prefer the "vecaa" tag, because it just makes it "the old" (if
translated) deconstructs the idiom "vecā druka". I think, the tag
"vecaadruka" would be 100% recognizable by any Latvian. Is it an accepted
convention to use words from the respective language for the subtags
("rozaj" for Resian, "arevmda" for Western Armenian, etc.)? Because in the
beginning I was thinking of using a subtag in English ("pre1910").

Another question:
* should a separate variant be created for the contemporary orthography of
the Latvian language?
* also, on 5 June 1946, some letters were removed from the alphabet by the
orthographic reform (CH replaced with H, Ō with O, Ŗ with R). Should the
types before and after reform to be registered as well?


On Tue, 1 Sep 2020, 18:37 John Cowan, <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:

> The applicability of the date seems a little vague, as if the transition
> happened in 1910.  How about "vecaa"?  The "aa" represents the long "a" of
> the proper "ā" letter, which cannot be used in subtags.  It also makes the
> subtag 5 letters long: "veca" would be incorrect because it looks like a
> script subtag (though there is currently no such subtag).
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 10:45 AM Lenny Soshinskiy <soshial@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 1. Name of requester: Leonid Soshinsky
>> 2. E-mail address of requester: soshial@gmail.com
>> 3. Record Requested:
>>
>>    Type:        variant
>>    Subtag:      pre1910
>>    Description: Latvian language in the old orthography used before 1910s
>> ("vecā druka" in Latvian)
>>    Prefix:      lv
>>    Comments:    The subtag represents the old orthography of Latvian
>> language used during c. 1600s–1920s. It was first described in 1863
>> by August Bielenstein in his book "Die lettische Sprache, nach ihren Lauten
>> und Formen". The orthography has been been official for Latvian language
>> till new orthography was approved in 1908 and fully adopted in 1930.
>>
>> 4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
>>
>>    The old orthography of Latvian language used during c. 1600–1920s
>>
>> 5. Reference to published description of the language (book or article):
>>     -- Pēteris Vanags. LATVIEŠU VALODA PIRMS LATVIJAS VALSTS (link:
>> https://www.president.lv/storage/kcfinder/files/VVK_Raksti%2C_10._sejuma_fails.pdf
>> )
>>     -- August Bielenstein. Die lettische Sprache, nach ihren Lauten und
>> Formen -- Riga: 1863–1864
>>     -- Rīgas Latviešu biedrības Zinību Komisijas Ortogrāfijas Komisija.
>> «Uzaicinājums latviešu pareizrakstības reformas lietā» – 1908. – Nr. 263. –
>> 12. (25.) nov.
>>     -- Ina Druviete. „Kārlis Mīlenbahs”, -- Riga: Zinātne, 1990 (chapter
>> "Vienotai rakstībai un izrunai", link:
>> http://www.vvk.lv/index.php?sadala=192&id=620)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ietf-languages mailing list
>> Ietf-languages@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
>>
>