Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki

Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Tue, 09 February 2010 16:20 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: ietf-outcomes@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-outcomes@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3514D3A73F5; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:20:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.58
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2FpXdgn-sHH9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7D43A73E9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.43] (adsl-68-122-70-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.122.70.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o19GLJeG001587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:21:24 -0800
Message-ID: <4B718B7B.6000401@dcrocker.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:21:15 -0800
From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: David Harrington <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
References: <EDC652A26FB23C4EB6384A4584434A0401F0D8DA@307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com> <048101caa80f$db2ee5a0$0600a8c0@china.huawei.com> <E25EFA3754F74B2AB6D11BBA3685FD70@BertLaptop> <4B70F71B.7080804@bogus.com> <BLU137-DS5E874A567D6039C93F14793500@phx.gbl> <064301caa99f$fb5f6e30$0600a8c0@china.huawei.com>
In-Reply-To: <064301caa99f$fb5f6e30$0600a8c0@china.huawei.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10371/Tue Feb 9 05:33:13 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:21:24 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ietf-outcomes@ietf.org, "'ops-area \(IETF\)'" <ops-area@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki
X-BeenThere: ietf-outcomes@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
List-Id: IETF Outcomes Wiki discussion list <ietf-outcomes.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-outcomes>, <mailto:ietf-outcomes-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-outcomes>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-outcomes@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-outcomes-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-outcomes>, <mailto:ietf-outcomes-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:20:21 -0000

Dave,

On 2/9/2010 7:53 AM, David Harrington wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think it would be good to set success and failure to match rfc 5218,
> and have the legends page provide brief descriptions of the
> categories, and reference RFC 5218 for more details.


The easy question is:  why?

The definition in RFC 5218 is:

      "we consider a successful protocol to be one that both meets its original
      goals and is widely deployed."

This means that a protocol is a failure if it is widely used, but for different 
purposes than it was intended.

"Deployed" is also a problem, since there is a long track record of industry's 
having deployed something but never actually using it very much.  I submit all 
of OSI as a prime example.

      These are the reasons the wiki was premised on the simple measure of use.

However I note that the column that lists degree of success only uses the word 
'adoption'. However Target Segment uses 'use'.

d/

ps.  I also note you've been busy updating net management-related entries.  Thanks!

-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net