IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [ietf-smtp] smtp improvement?

John Bucy <jbucy@google.com> Tue, 15 September 2020 18:53 UTC

Return-Path: <jbucy@google.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEAC3A17AF for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h6bwVKj-JyEn for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F6963A17AD for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id y17so4226231lfa.8 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=w+l5VJUteKRS66dIQqjY5OduJ8wwH+hLvUEmSRboed0=; b=gEoDqZhjngCRpyJGIZKsku0Ya8F5z2pz40blhUHSjrdfbln7ui9AW0QP4w92+3IQq8 p95O/8Z6co4SDuStLQ3XcBmoqVy8yEPxGkP+pHhqadofrGHT8YUdisKbEToZ1L91RujS v4SbhhDyGvPdIq5CuJT3jMY8lGY4CUG5qLSnvDAS9f0wlrlW6tsukZM6BXLmAyQYjzdr 1pTHQ6PpIixKAqtOrBTyJjrn18YHOSVvQu+pm1WfGr2EN5jA5viTaSlmBN25o7wqxxd2 xhb9GjRoFkybQPJ+2sIhM4smr9sr8NxyNYSTzN8iob/tqSd8ulPEHvTzoXN16oYxGv6m Z32w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w+l5VJUteKRS66dIQqjY5OduJ8wwH+hLvUEmSRboed0=; b=l3zuC0u9jWrXwOoDQ4UU0rY1g7Fh+7N6aO9RLePTSCfiOMM/+aXGrox5v88aZrroJJ xfidEGqcFfbE6Yll92kNcvz6sKLkPp9pZESuw/9jFD7uSNqNwc08RKUpRo3AsTSWq7sR R5MjLrf3vmkPSCW5Ad6cJFHvbPGR/f5M6QOZpFIKQipIzo03i7ikeeZH3J1/vdXNdnPV Y7JzSGGCL6ElM8OCGuyv3WXgA7Eiab3b+NlFTN+2i4imFBA6xHpMwJzo6zP4+/Or3bbe vMuscOCNIQKDw77FzHjjMXY/36YBNtn3zp02UFeIBWw3L9yaj1a7db89mAVTq7rYyfkb hbDA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531+yBydBIo656mSto5U1GC2esJ7mQpATdbtrHrqQhKV3PO4Gt9L XWoa0qLuREnmO1Jgf7sAGzx26QaA2k6noFhboWDeQA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJytgolIjum2HFN+Qjocntb96JJNj9G8W/SetxJYNaydHvKvik5mz5aZxcwSJk7T/PhGAZTCqxz88u3hI4Tnyr8=
X-Received: by 2002:a19:c788:: with SMTP id x130mr5697519lff.553.1600196028175; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <te1SaFZOMSOjDAcEAvL24CF40exooXRe212SQoZQMoBX8BJyFGmg2KYVr5VTPxH3G5G7myxRvAfLZ7Q_Ok3MRVRlH48GHddeOLSgkpWIMKE=@protonmail.com> <FF9469BF7566121BCD4D30D8@PSB> <CABa8R6t3hmuGyP-=+tidqMp23SHmwddH247=7OwuTDs3NJJzyg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABa8R6t3hmuGyP-=+tidqMp23SHmwddH247=7OwuTDs3NJJzyg@mail.gmail.com>
From: John Bucy <jbucy@google.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 11:53:36 -0700
Message-ID: <CALui8C1BLwOvAnDwpoJ_gfevPym1zfB6cAEm_gbcU1uurgJZRw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brandon Long <blong=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, iloveemail2 <iloveemail2@protonmail.com>, ietf-smtp <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d509ca05af5eabbf"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/GckZHH0UyXg-G7DbZN6E6DOYd3s>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] smtp improvement?
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 18:53:52 -0000

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:40 PM Brandon Long <blong=
40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Yes, I should point out that at Google, we do multiplex multiple
> connections between a proxy frontend and our actual smtp servers, but we
> don't do it at the command level, but at the stream level, which is a much
> simpler mechanism for integration and utility across different protocols
> (we do this with imap, pop, xmpp, and probably others, on top of the
> various types of HTTP).
>
> Envoy has at least some support for this:
>
> https://www.envoyproxy.io/docs/envoy/v1.15.0/intro/arch_overview/http/upgrades#tunneling-tcp-over-http-2
>
> STARTTLS requires some OOB handshaking to make this work which I'm not
> sure that Envoy supports, but I'm sure it could be extended to do it.
> Ditto with passing the connection metadata forward, though envoy probably
> already does that as HTTP headers on the request stream.
>

We're making some progress on STARTTLS support in Envoy
https://github.com/envoyproxy/envoy/issues/9577



cheers
john

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email